In continuing with a little theme here, that is about heroes, we have discussion question number two. From what we call our heroes down a different path. There are, of course, different heroes that speak in different ways to everyone. Authors write them different ways and thus give a wide variety of rakes, rogues, etc. But . . .
. . .what about those contemporary heroes? Can they be compared to a historical hero? It’s one thing to have an alpha macho male who hacks off heads in the medieval era, but could a contemporary hero get away with that?
How can one really compare Hardy Cates and Nick Gentry (or how about St. Vincent)? Does one expect some modern aspects of a historical hero? Does one instead expect historical male characteristics in a contemporary hero to make him a different sort of hero?
What are things that set apart a historical hero from a contemporary hero? Are there things that both might have in common that make them a hero in the first place?
Enquiring minds want to know . . .
I don’t think Hardy and Nick are very comparable… for modern aspects and historical heroes… the warmongers [ok that’s a mean/bad term] – would probably be military men. Or mercenaries.
Bounty hunters. [Those guys are cool!] Well, the FBI ones… or whatever.
Derek Craven makes me think of the orphaned sad child, who becomes uber business mogul that everyone bows and scrapes to because he’s self made, but has a gajillion dollars. [That’s a technical term, thanks.]
I think other than the physical trappings, the characters are essentially the same. Their characteristics, personalities, core beliefs, competence, ability to overcome adversity… there’s just a difference of dressing’s oneself and better plumbing 😛
I oversimplified that, but I need to flee my apartment. Off to BN for some booklove!
🙂 Thanks for visiting with us, Lisa!
I agree with limecello that the hero’s basic morals are the same regardless of the time period in which they are written into. Careers are different and how a hero interacts within society is different. For instance modern hero’s do not have to worry about what it would look like if they slept w their heroine’s before marriage.
I loooooooooooooooooooooooooove Hardy though!!! He is def my fav characater from any of Ms. Kleypas’s books. Is he still trying w Haven to have a baby? I don’t know, there is just something about that character that drives me wild! I really hope that Haven and Hardy will make an appearence in Jack’s book, and I can’t wait until we get to find out more about Jack. Yay!
Ah yes, Jack. I think he’s definitely a hero that could cross over from historical to contemporary and back again. I really can’t wait for Jack’s book.
🙂
Becky, LOL . . . thank you, I will confess, I fell in love with Hardy’s character, the idea of him, as I was writing the book, and he and Haven will DEFINITELY be in Jack’s book. I think with Hardy’s character, the attraction for me is this sort of odd combination of nobility and earthiness . . . he’s capable of crude remarks, and he makes mistakes, but at the same time he’s protective and passionate and loving. And he’s got a truly uncompromising sense of masculinity that I think is sexy–he’s all man.
It is so hard to describe the differences in historical and contemporary heroes . . . all I know is that if I tried to put a hero like Merripen in a contemporary setting, it wouldn’t work at all. He’s too over the top and primitive, and I can’t see him dealing with the constraints of modern life. And St. Vincent wouldn’t work nearly as well in modern times, either, I think.
You can’t transpose a historical hero directly into the contemporary setting unless it’s a time travel and fish-out-of-water story. Some things that are acceptable in a historical setting are just not done in contemporary times. The lingo is also different.
The commonalities that spring out at me would be the depth of passion for the heroine, the overwhelming need to protect and hold what’s precious to them and the indomitable need to succeed.
YES. Those are the essentials. (And don’t forget good in bed *g*)
I think that at times a historical hero can become much more dominating in regards to his overall presence in the story than in a contemporary. However in a contemporary the hero can be much more openly earthy and raw in regards to his sexuality and overall personality. Because many historicals are written the UK they have to obey certain societal constraints that are none existent in say for example modern day Texas. I think that any good contemporary has an innate sense of grittiness in all of its characters and settings. That sense that this story and this hero is just on the edge of reality.
Lisa, You don’t think St. Vincent would translate over well to modern times? Being the author, you are the authority, but there’s one scene that makes me question that. It’s the scene when St. Vincent reads up the on the mysterious germs and forbids Evie to nurse her father because he’s worried about her. This acceptance of modern ideas, albeit with some skepticism, makes me think that Sebastian’s mind is flexible enough to be able to handle modern-day. And his ability to use his charm to his advantage, to be able to go from not able to fight to being able to throw a good punch so his adaptability… when he’s pressed enough, he changes… and I do have to say, changes rather well. I could see him being very confused for a while, and irritated when women wanted to open doors for themselves (especially if it was a modern Evie!), but his ability to turn Evie’s father’s business around makes me think that he would be able to do the same in modern times.
But then, perhaps you have insights into his character that didn’t make it onto the pages.
Jen, you make a strong case.
“(And don’t forget good in bed *g*)”
That goes without saying. LOL
Jennybrat: Oh! so true so true!
Lisa, I didn’t mean to make it sound as if my comment was snide two posts ago, I was just pointing out that often there’s a lot more thought on characters that never makes it into the book (and perhaps I was fishing for some of that unused random facts on Sebastian), but when I re-read my comment I realized it could perhaps be interpreted as rude, and did not want that to happen… curse the lack of voice inflection on the internet!
I agree that our heroes could cut it in any time period…I mean, with Hardy Cates and Derek Craven, both grew up poor and fought tooth and nail to get to the top of their fields. Same kind of guy, just different times and different background but even though they’re from different time periods, I have no problem seeing Derek being born hundreds of years later and fighting his way to the top, same with Hardy. I think we love them so much because they’re strong men and strong men overcome anything, regardless of when they were born.
Does one expect some modern aspects of a historical hero?
I expect a historical hero to recognize the heroine as his equal.
You know, I have to agree with Monica. I realize times were different back then, but I really like to see my historical heroes showing respect to their heroines..and treating them like equals.
I also agree with Rowena that Derek is one of those heroes who could easily be made into a contemp hero. He would have fought the same regardless.
St. Vincent (my favorite) I’m not so sure about. Unless he was a trust fund baby who suddenly lost everything and had to take over his wife’s business… 😛
Dear Jen,
Just got back from taking my children to karate (2 torturous hours!) . . . I LOVED your comments about St. Vincent, and it made me think . . . you could very well be right, because he is very, very adaptable. In fact, I can’t think of another Wallflower hero who had to change as much as he did, especially in regard to going from languorous aristocrat to hard-working club owner. While I was writing DIW, I figured the change in him was due in large part to the fact that he “needed to be needed” . . . but it is also the mark of a forward-thinking man. What great insight–thanks! And there is no possible way you could sound rude . . . please don’t ever worry about that with me 🙂
Dear Rowena,
I think that’s a great point . . . if a self-made man is THAT determined to make it, he’s willing to do quite a lot, and I think you could infer that he would be very open-minded. That powerful drive could certainly impel him to adjust to any number of circumstances.
Dear Monica,
YES YES, that is what I always say is my not-so-secret technique to creating chemistry and hopefully hot love scenes . . . the recognition that at the foundation of all this attraction is a mutual respect for each other. None of my heroes would never hit a woman or try to crush her spirit. Challenge, tease, mock, play, yes . . . but his heroine is always his equal, and really has power over him.
Man! I always miss these ARC contests! Damn my work schedule!
Ohmigod, look at that. One minute. Ugh. I saw the contest at 11:58pm and just panicked and couldn’t come up with a thoughtful answer in time. I suck.
Hi Loonigrrl,
Its okay, the contest does not end till Wednesday May 14th at midnight…I hope I read that right.:-)
I’m going to try and think of something thoughtful too…still thinking.:-)
Wait . . . I think the 14th at midnight was about 3 hours ago. ‘Cause the next time it’s midnight it’ll be the 15th. Right? These time differences totally mess with me. If only I weren’t on Pacific time- then I would have made it. ACCCKKK!!!!
Hmm…this one’s interesting. I don’t know if St. Vincent would work as a contemporary hero. He seems so overprotective of Evie and in control of everything she does. That’s not to say Evie didn’t have her moments of control (making him lose the bet), but all in all he actually took her inheritance away and succesfully ran it without really any say from her.
Sorry Lisa, I haven’t read your contemporaries so far, but I will get Sugar Daddy on Sunday (My birthday)
It wouldn’t be easy to transport a historical hero in a contemporary setting, at least they would have to have some small changes, to make them fit into today’s society.
There are some characteristics in a hero that I expect in whatever book I’m reading. I want the hero to be crazy about the heroine. I want him to show me that with his actions not just his words. Also I like a hero who knows what he wants and then does whatever he has to to get it.
I agree that a hero like Derek or Hardy with that inner drive and determination to overcome adversity and succeed could work in either era.