Now that the kerfuffle surrounding Suzanne Brockmann’s latest Troubleshooters book, Dark of Night has died down a bit, we thought you might be interested in a discussion Lynne Connolly and I had about the book right after it was released.
The discussion topics are in bold, our comments are separated by our icons.
Must I say that there are SPOILERS??? Because, of course, there are.
| Here’s a “who’s who” in this, our first (and hopefully not our last), DUCKS DO A BOOK entry: | |
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C-Squared (a.k.a. C2) – Review Duck, blogger, reader, all around good gal. |
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Lynne Connolly (a.k.a. LynneC) – author, blogger, reader, chief cook and bottle washer, Jack-of-all-trades, and occasional Review Duck. Yet another good gal (we have lots of those around here). |
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Are the Troubleshooters books romantic suspense or suspense with romantic elements? What about the balance between romance and suspense?
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Definitely romantic suspense. No matter how suspense-y, Suz always gives us some romance. DoN was an okay balance but I wish it had been longer. It all seemed a teeny bit rushed to me. Maybe because I read it so fast. 😀 |
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That depends on what you expect, I think. In the latest JR Ward story, the main comment was that she was moving away from romance and toward urban fantasy, and the romance took a backseat to the rest of the story. Some readers liked it. With Brockmann, I can easily see her books in a different section of the bookstore, and doing well there. I like it. It gives her more freedom to develop the storylines and the action. I don’t think every reader can get away with it, but Brockmann does. . But in this book, “Dark of Night,” the romance was enough for me. Sometimes I like lush stories that are all about the romance, but I don’t look to Brockmann for that. . The romances are developed individually, that is, we get how each character feels about the other, but often, time together is limited. I enjoyed that Sophia and Dave had some time to get to know each other as a couple, for example, so they had a basis for their relationship. I want more, and I want to see how they interact more. |
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Were you satisfied with final couplings? Was the relationship development believable??
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Very satisfied, actually. I never could see Sophia and Decker together so all I can say is YAY that she put Sophia with Dave and Tracy with Decker. Although a bit more familiarity with Tracy would have helped going into the book.Believable relationship development, too. It isn’t like Tracy and Deck had just met or anything. They’ve been working together for a while…so maybe they just started paying attention. And Sophia and Dave have been moving toward their relationship the whole time. |
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The HEAs were believable, on the whole, especially since Brockmann doesn’t end the romances in the books, they carry on. It’s a real pleasure to see Sam and Alyssa working out their relationship, and I did enjoy the Nash and Tess thing. She didn’t quite get hold of the BDSM power thing, though she definitely goes some way toward it (by the way, there is no actual BDSM content in this book, although there is a power relationship that echoes writers like Joey W Hill, but I think Hill does it better). This is just the book where the characters get together, and since she plans to write more TS books, we can be pretty sure we’ll see more of them. . I liked the way Sophia and Decker reconciled their relationship, and I think the reasons why they didn’t get together were explained pretty well. If they hadn’t had that scene in the bathroom toward the end, I wouldn’t have been so happy, but they talked it through and yes, I was happy with Sophia and Dave. Especially the Dave side. I actually loved the geek-into-spy thing, it’s a bit like a Cinderella story, and I really loved the conversation between Dave and one of my favorite characters, Wild Card Karmody. Geeks rule! |
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Oh, I love Kenny! He’s one of my favorite SEALs. That conversation between him and Dave was tons of fun. LOL |
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The Transformation of Tracy from ditzy receptionist to smart, in control woman was a bit problematic for me. I went along with it, because I could just about accept it, but it didn’t quite work. I’m not sure why, perhaps because Tracy hasn’t been explored properly before. |
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Yup, Tracy could have been developed a bit more in prior books. I don’t think I had a good sense of her beyond the secretary stereotype…there wasn’t time for any development in DoN, though. |
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Were the villains believable?
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This was a not-so-much for me. The villains seemed a bit too all-knowing. Especially for such a small group. I know a small group of crazies can accomplish a lot but jeez… |
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Okay, so one thing does bother me a bit. Most Brockmann stories take place in the US, and yet the bodycount is pretty high. We never hear any kickback about that, as in, who deals with the bodies on the streets? Aren’t there any enquiries or arrests? . What I could do without – the skimming over the realities. I want to know how TS Inc, which is, after all, a private organisation, deals with all the laws it breaks, not least the killings. But there are B and E’s and other transgressions, too. That’s why I made my Dept 57 part of the CIA, consultants and affiliates to the major government security forces, but even then I do dispose of the bodies! |
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As far as the skimming over realities goes – I don’t mind so much. How would she ever research super-secret government organizations? And even if she found out exactly how they do their super-secret stuff, either they wouldn’t let her share it OR no one would believe they really run like that anyway. I guess that’s why I never thought about the body count, clean-up, etc. Since it mostly wouldn’t be her characters doing that, I don’t mind it going unexplained. And, really, unless it is something huge, I don’t think those things get a lot of play in the news here. Of course, I’m not a big news watcher so I could be totally wrong. A friend is a federal agent, though (not FBI or anything fancy) and there’s never anything about stuff she’s involved in – at least, nothing that is attributed to her office directly. |
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Fan grrl level?
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Not psycho stalker fan level…just enthusiastic. Seriously, she’s one of my very, very favorite authors. |
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Big fan. I have all the books, and they all have to be keepers for me. I was in the minority in enjoying the last book in the series, but it wasn’t because of the Izzy story, as I just plain didn’t like him, and Vinh was a bit off, but the story was kicking. |
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Now, moving on – you don’t like Izzy? Awww. I love Izzy! The last book was not my fave (Hot Target is!) – I don’t know what I was expecting for Murphy’s story but that wasn’t it. The Izzy story was the more interesting part, I thought. But the action/suspense part was good. |
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What I really, really love and why I’ll read anything Brockmann puts out – Her men. They aren’t alphabetised, they’re not supermen, Brockmann’s heroes are real. I love that she gave Tom Paoletti early male-pattern baldness, I love that not all her men are over six feet tall, perfect of feature and their inner thoughts sound like women. They don’t angst all the time, and articulate that angst perfectly, some of them have a lot of problems articulating how they feel, and some bottle it up. But they are real people, and that is why she can write a large cast of characters and give them all life. |
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I am SO completely in agreement that the guys totally make the books – she’s admitted that she struggles a bit with female characters and I think she’s improving but the guys are excellent! Totally, totally how guys are. Good and bad. LOL |
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Her deep third point of view. Very few writers can really delve into characters the way Brockmann does. You live and experience with them. Her pov switches are instantly recognisable because they’re another voice. Each character has his or her own way of looking at things. I’d love her, just as an exercise, to describe the exact same event from several points of view. Sometimes she does this in the books, but the views tend to overlap slightly, instead of running parallel. |
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The deep POV thing – what you said is almost exactly what I said in my review. Great minds! |
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The romances are developed individually, that is, we get how each character feels about the other, but often, time together is limited. I enjoyed that Sophia and Dave had some time to get to know each other as a couple, for example, so they had a basis for their relationship. I want more, and I want to see how they interact more. |
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So, any other topics you think we should discuss?
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Can’t think of any. Except what happens next. If the next book concentrates on Sam and Alyssa, I’m all for it. But I want more Jules, and if he’s moving from the FBI to TS, where will he fit in? Maybe share XO duties with Alyssa as TS expands? Jules is such a great character, I love his voice! |
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Jules is my very, very favorite character! I want a Jules of my own. :o) Sam’s my second fave. I wouldn’t mind having a Sam of my own, too. 😉 . I’m thinking Jules needs to move to the LA FBI office, at least – good for him, being close to the TS gang, and good for Robin’s career. Or, if Jules does end up with TS, Inc. – maybe he could be their liaison person with miscellaneous government agencies? He can be very diplomatic, after all. Smooth out the ruffled egos, etc. Regardless, any book with Sam and Alyssa is going to have at least a little Jules and Robin – and probably a lot. And maybe LA needs its own branch office of TS. Hmm. Suz will work it all out for him – I think Jules is her fave, too. |
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What about you, readers and fellow Ducks? What trips your trigger about the Troubleshooters books, or romantic suspense in general? What IS IT about Brockmann’s books that is just so dadgum readable? What do you not like about them?
The duckie! He keeeeels me! 😀
Also, if anyone cares, I didn’t call myself an all around good gal – Gwen did. Thanks Gwen. 🙂
Coincidentally, I’m struggling with trying to write a review of this book for one of the challenges I’m doing this year. I have so many mixed feeling about it that if it weren’t for the challenge I wouldn’t even try.
I have no problem with Sophia & Deck not ending up together because I always thought they were too dysfunctional even for a Brockmann couple, but I still wasn’t completely happy with either of the final pairings. I had way more problems with Deck & Tracy than with Sophia and Dave.
Like Lynn, I thought of Joey Hill’s books and Tracy is no Violet. I would be much happier if they turned out to be a “happy for now” and had their HEAs with other people later. Sadly, I assume we’re stuck with them. Once a pairing has done the mutual “I love yous” they’re pretty much carved in stone.
On the plus side, Wildcard put in an appearance. When he showed up inside my head I said “Ken!” the way the patrons at Cheers used to say “Norm!”
You know what really stuck with me about this book? And I should have KNOWN, because Brockman has suckered me with this one before – most notably with the early days of Sam, although I always wanted to slap Alyssa a little for being so damn bitchy and judgemental – is just how unreliable her narrators can be, while being completely authentic with who they are.
It’s the deep pov – her characters think what they think, and you know why they think those things are that way, and so you buy it, because their judgement is sound in other ways. However, those two things aren’t the same, even if it’s easy to conflate them. Clever.
Also, this book made me think (more so than I did before) that hell, Izzy is an asshole. Mostly because Tracey got mostly labeled in my head on account of his testimony, and we see this time round just how biased his perspective was on that. Love that.
I too saw Decker / Tracey as a HFN; but one that could be a HEA, just with time, and work.
@FD–I think you’re the only person I’ve seen who agrees with me abut Alyssa being sort of bitchy to Sam. However, I saw the Izzy & Tracy situation just the opposite. When they slept together I sort of saw Tracy’s point, but when she was complaining in this book I just didn’t buy that he was a jerk. He gave her what she asked for, then she changed her mind about what she wanted and he didn’t go along. I think that’s a trainwreck all around, but it doesn’t make anyone an asshole. I assume that at some point we’re going to get more of the horror show that is Izzy and his child bride. I’m hoping that this reserve of goodwill for him will make that a little less painful.
I agree with you about the unreliable narrator thing though. I wouldn’t have described it that way but it is one of the things that keeps me following the books. I also think that it’s one of the reasons that opinions on the development of the story arc are so polarized. What you see depends on who you believe and why.
“Also, this book made me think (more so than I did before) that hell, Izzy is an asshole. Mostly because Tracey got mostly labeled in my head on account of his testimony, and we see this time round just how biased his perspective was on that. Love that.”
Ooo yes! Izzy didn’t do it for me, but I know other readers love him. I thought he was a bit of a rat. And yes to Ken, too. I, yes, punched the air, and when Something happens later, I was so worried about the poor dear that it overbalanced the plot a bit for me.
It’s a bit like watching the British “Spooks/MI5” as opposed to watching, say, “CSI.” In Spooks, nobody is safe, the whole cast has been decimated and replaced over the years. In CSI, the goodies are good and the baddies are bad, and if anybody is going to leave the show it’s well telegraphed in advance, and they don’t usually die. Though with the high ratings on Warrick’s death, they might think again about that. But did anyone really think they’d kill off Horatio?
With Brockmann, I get the feeling that she’d love to take the world into the suspense mainstream, so she can play with the characters. Nobody would be safe, then. And I think that would be fun, but switching genres mid-series has never been a successful strategy.
With Brockmann, I get the feeling that she’d love to take the world into the suspense mainstream, so she can play with the characters. Nobody would be safe, then. And I think that would be fun, but switching genres mid-series has never been a successful strategy.
Maybe she’ll manage to have it both ways if she spins Sam and Alyssa off into their own sub-series? She can focus more on the suspense elements since they already have their HEA?? She wouldn’t be able to kill off any of the cross-series characters without people going wacko but she could introduce new people to kill. LOL
she could introduce new people to kill
@c2 you’re on a roll. You’ve made me laugh out loud twice in the last 5 minutes—and I really appreciate it. I just finished a paper that was seriously unfun so the laughs were very welcome.
Also, I can totally imagine Suz doing this. Sam & Lys could join the ranks of fictional crime solvers that are like some really violent version of Typhoid Mary. Everywhere they go people drop dead like flies.
@Lynne: May I recommend NCIS instead of CIS for your gov agency tv fix? NCIS has been known to kill off operatives/directors/support staff, you name it. They’ll probably never kill Gibbs… Actually, now that I think of it, the majority of the dead characters are women. Grrr! I still love it though, and I can always hope one of the guys gets shot in the ass. 🙂
General comment: I’m an Izzy girl (sorry). I never really saw him and Tracey working out in the long run, and thought both of them made some dumb mistakes in ITS.
As for Eden, I’m not bothered by her age or the age difference. As far as I’m concerned, she’s an adult and he’s only 10 years older. I do think she is extremely manipulative and immature (Izzy is also really immature, although the more I date, the more I see how well he represents men age 25-35), and they both need to grow up a bit before their HEA is possible.
Random Wrap-up: I enjoyed Tracey/Deck pairing, and would rather it be a work in progress with a little more development of the BDSM than an open/closed case.
LoriK – your Typhoid Mary comment made me giggle. I’m so glad we amuse each other. 😉
@Jess My problem with Eden & Izzy is actually less with her age than her circumstances. Having spent several years in social work I have a pretty good idea who her baby daddy was. If I’m right her emotional age fluctuates between about 12 and about 50 and Izzy is walking into a buzzsaw. An HEA is possible, but probably can’t be realistically portrayed in this kind of fiction. That means if they’re really staying together I’m likely to end up hating the arc.
Hiya! Had to put my 2 cents in. I think DoN was 10,000 times better than the book before. The previous book made my head hurt. I actually liked the couple pairings in this book. I thought Deck was an idiot throughout most of the series due to his complete inability to GET OVER IT ALREADY, but I’m glad he didn’t end up with Sophia. I thought that was just a wreck in the making.
As for Sam and Alyssa…I’ve always found the dynamics of their relationship fascinating and frustrating at the same time. One minute they’re all lovey dovey and the next they’re snarking at each other like two year olds. I still haven’t fully forgiven Alyssa for all the crap she put Sam thru leading up to their HEA…or HFN or whatever you want to call it.
My favorite book is All Through The Night because it’s JULES! Yay! Jules is one of the best written characters ever, which is why he’s on the my desert island with me. Of course, he’s gay, so we don’t actually DO anything together, but whatever. It’s my fantasy and all that good stuff…right? 😀
@LoriK: On the boards people seem primarily concerned with screeching about the age difference, so I appreciate that your problem is actually with Eden’s emotionally maturity and lack thereof. I definitely agree that she is a deeply troubled character, and probably because I haven’t had your real world experience with similar women, it’ll be easier to convince me of a HEA between them.
But I do hope Brockmann doesn’t take a short cut with them, and either gets Eden professional help (and really, the whole Gillman family at this point needs to seek help) or finds someone a little less damaged for Izzy since he seems to have his own childhood scars.
Can I also say that I wish we got to see more of the old members of Team 16? I was glad Kenny was back in this book, but I also want to see John Nilsson (whose step-daughter has to be about Eden’s age at this point, maybe she would be a good influence?) and Tommy’s niece!
@jJess—Eden’s physical age, or more precisely the difference in age between her & Izzy, is a factor for me. It’s just not the biggest issue. I feel like I can’t articulate the problem without just putting it out there. This is in absolutely no way a spoiler because I have no actual information about where Suz is going with this.
IMO if Brockmann is being true to life then Eden’s stepfather was the father of her baby. The stepfather’s behavior when Eden moved out, the skeevy BJ scene with Izzy and the maybe voluntary/maybe not porn all scream abuse victim to anyone who has worked with them.
Having worked at both a rape crisis center and with abused kids I can say without a doubt that the abused kids have a much tougher time healing. I could go one for days about how much it screws you up to be harmed by a person who is supposed to take care of you. Add in the fact that Eden would think her mom knew and did nothing (whether the mom actually knew or not) and the whole thing is just a nightmare. An HEA in the form of a healthy, honest relationship for Eden is a long way and a ton of therapy down the road. She needs to work toward it as an independent person, not as part of a couple trying to work out their problems.
And while Izzy is not even close to being old enough to be her father, the gap is large enough to create a power imbalance that’s hard to navigate in a healthy way. Izzy’s impulse to save her was well intentioned, but it just reinforced the idea that Eden has no way to take care of herself except by manipulating men who have power in her life. And frankly Izzy doesn’t have the emotional maturity to deal with any of this.
My 2 cents.