Question I would love for anyone and everyone to answer….
I know it has been talked about over and over but I have been giving letter grades a bit of thought over the past few days. I never ‘graded’ reviews before I was apart of AAR. So that pretty much shaped my view of what the letter grades meant. I still pretty much think along the same lines but wondered what you thought.
If you personally grade your books, as I know more than a few of you keep reader logs, what is a “C” grade to you?
If you review what is a “C” grade?
If you are reading a review, how do you view a “C” grade?
If you are an author, how do you ‘view’ a C grade and is it different than how you feel about it when reading a review of another book?
I admit I do not see a C grade as a bad grade. C = average. It could be a book I have seen a 100 times before, enjoyed while reading and forgot it as soon as I closed the book. “I” don’t see that as a bad book but it isn’t a B either. A C grade could be a book that hit a few buttons but nothing that made me want to throw it over. A book I would grade a C is a book I could see a lot of people reading and liking or loving.
I have to say though, as a reader I don’t pay much attention to the letter as much as the commentary. Am I the only one that doesn’t think C = bad?
Hi, Sybil.
A “C” grade, to me, signifies mediocrity. And a mediocre book is not one for which I’d pay retail price . . . or even a slightly discounted, Amazon-type price. (Money’s just too hard to come by these days!)
I rather like the way Mrs. Giggles grades books–between 0 and 100. The specific number combined with her extensive commentary really gives me something to chew on. Quotation of passages always helps, too, because if I can’t tolerate an author’s writing style, I won’t make it through the first chapter.
I’d say my C books tend to be competent and readable but unremarkable. I may be bored or distracted by the mediocrity in places, but not enough to put the book down if there’s nothing better to do. On the other hand, once I put a C down, I’m usually not particularly compelled to pick it up again. C’s can also occur when there’s a higher… split or standard deviation in things like storytelling and writing style. A pretty way with words combined with lackluster or frustrating storytelling or a compelling story that keeps me reading despite serious style or mechanics issues might balance out to a C.
C’s lack *wow*, or there’s enough serious badness to balance out whatever *wow* there is. I’d recommend Cs to people who enjoy the topic/plotline/narrative kinks/genre that the book is in, but unless it hits mine I’m probably passing it along/UBSing it. C’s are usually forgettable, except when they’re frustrating (usually because there were one or two qualities/interesting potentials in the storytelling that got squandered or offset by other badness.)
I have the same take on a “C” read as you do Sybil. An “okay” book. Nothing special, but somewhat enjoyable with a couple of elements that kept your–general ‘your’–interest (ie, mystery subplot, secondary characters, love scenes, etc).
Not a keeper, but you wouldn’t necessarily regret reading it. Depending on the price, and whether it contains some of the reader’s personal guilty pleasures (marriage of convenience for example) it might or might not be worth getting from the UBS/library rather than buying new.
While I love Mrs. G, I don’t pay attention to her number grade (don’t pay much attention on anyone’s number/letter grade to be honest). But in Mrs. G’s case I think the number grade has more to do with how much *she* enjoyed the book, rather than an indication of the quality of the writing/story. Many times you’ll find her number grade and her commentary don’t really line up, especially when you compare other books that recieved the same grade from her. There’s no consistency. But her commentaries/anaylsis are where you get the meaty stuff on the books read.
To be honest, letter/number grades don’t mean much from any reviewer. It’s the actually writen review I pay attention to to see if the book is something I’d be interested in reading, regardless of whether the reveiwer liked the book or not. After all one woman’s hated/banal secret baby plot, is another woman’s most favourite story type evah!
C = Average. A “C” book for me has elements I liked, and elements I didn’t like, but it all comes out in the wash (so to speak). For example, the heroine is, at times, TSTL but the hero is pretty hunky and I thought the plot showed some promise. Clear as mud?
C = Average
When I give that grade but not often when it fits it’s category but nothing stands out as really different or the good cancels the bad.
The writing can be top notch, but the story makes no sense. The story is top notch but the writing and editing sucks.
Usually when I hit a C I figure it would be hard to argue my grade with someone so most times I find another book to review.
I like a review on a book that I had great love for or great hate for.
C reviews can be boring because there ain’t much to say.
I tend to lose patience with books pretty easily, and since I’m not required to review anything that I read, a C book is likely to be on the lower end of the scale of books I’ll finish. But that doesn’t mean a C book is bad, because obviously I stuck it out enough to keep reading to arrive at that conclusion. And I agree with other commenters–it’s not the grade that means anything, it’s the commentary.
I read about ten books a week, most of them acquired very cheaply, so a “C” is okay by me. I gotta have something to read on the exercycle, after all. To me, C means it’s readable enough to pass the time while I sweat and then I can toss it in the donate pile. Almost better than a “B” book, which will have me going crazy deciding whether or not to keep it.
For me C=okay. So the book isn’t even good, really – that would be a B. A C book is one you read if don’t have anything else and you find it lying around somewhere (like while visiting someone or stuck in an airport/train station). A book you don’t like but you don’t hate and one that will keep you from falling asleep but not much else. But the letter assigned to a review doesn’t mean as much as the actual review…
So very interesting I think. I don’t see average as bad at all. And a C+ and C would alway be an author I would want to read again – prolly not that book. It could be a book I found amusing at the time and could see MANY other loving it but when I sat down to review it – it was forgettable.
Or it could be a book I some what liked but know half the world over wouldn’t and when I sat down to write the review I had no reason for liking it and wasn’t passionate about it. I think guilty pleasure reads can fall into C range for me lots and lots. Diana Palmer is often a C read for me and I adore her books. Some of them I would grade higher some lower. But she is an entertaining fun read.
Lori Foster can often be a C read for me but I find her fun and readable and WANT to read her. But I understand why so many can’t stand her books, just as I understand why so many like them.
I think it comes down to how we view letter grades, what feelings we associate with some words and most of all how we view ‘reviews’.
I never think I want to buy some books, I think I will go read some reviews. That is why I never understand why authors get upset by ‘bad’ reviews. One persons D is another A. I think it is much more about exposure and getting people aware of a book more than it is about what one person thinks of a book.
I am still confused though when average became bad to so many because that leaves you with A and B. I have to LOVE a book to give it an A+. I want to put that book in every persons hand. I am passionate about my love of that book. Devil in Winter, Dark Lover, If His Kiss is Wicked, Season to be Sinful would all be A+ books to me.
It seems to me, if you cut out Cs as being a ‘good’ grade you are either going to over grade a book or give it a lower grade than it deserves. If nothing else if you get a C at TGTBTU you can know you prolly still wrote a ‘good’ book, in our eyes. LOL or at least in mine 😉
To me a “C” review means some problems with a book that I can’t get past. A “B” review is a solid book that I enjoyed. But a “C” review are probably 3 or more problems I had while reading. This is a book I will read once and forget about very quickly.
Honestly giving a “C” review is less than an average read. Anything “B” or higher is pretty good. When you get into the “C” territory, that’s when a book needs some major fixes or makes me roll my eyes.
But that’s just me! 🙂
I think people hate the C because you cannot really argue with the C very well. The reviewer basically said OK. You can argue with the D and say they were wrong or the B and say they are too picky but the C drives people nuts.
Katie you just described the D for me.
I agree with the lovely Katie(babs) on this one.
When you get into the “C” territory, that’s when a book needs some major fixes or makes me roll my eyes.
B’s are great. A’s, whoa nelly, those are reserved for the very special books that hit the highest note of perfection. Demon Moon. Caine’s Reckoning. Lord of Scoundrels. Dreaming of You. D’s just suck. F’s are the ones that aren’t only awful, but contain elements I can’t tolerate (twincest, anyone?).
My comment was eaten by the blog monster! Crap. What did I say????
hee I don’t like Mrs G’s system. It seems too all over but I have never really tried to figure it out. She works for me in a way if she hates it I prolly like it and if she loves it I will prolly hate it.
The commentary can work for me as amusing but she can run too long. I have a serious short attention span… on most stuff… and am anal as all get out on others… as I have been talking about this for about four days. If your review takes as long as reading the book, ten to one you lose me and I don’t finish the review.
I agree with Teddypig (damn, like 2 in 1 week… the end is near) Katiebabs for me that would be a D. D-, D or D+ are books I thing have lots of issues. BUT I can still say there are times I would rec a book I would give a D too.
There is a book I just got that is coming out in Feb. Never heard of it or the author. New Trilogy…. and I am gonna email the publisher to find out if this is another Dean or will end HEA. It is a manuscript and I can’t tell what it is being marketed as… it is 1st person, wolves and I like the narrator. But I can tell you RIGHT now if it is another Cameron Dean I would blow a fuse.
So I would throw it in a box for Gwen or Bev cuz I either way I think they would like it. Cuz they are fucked up like that. A lot of it comes down to what Sabrina J said about authors having ‘their million’. I think so much of a book being ‘good’ or being ‘successful’ has to do with finding its audience. Of course I fucking adore Sabrina Jeffries books and have given a few C’s and will still call all but one Good. But I would say I am very much in her ‘million’.
An A+ should mean something. Just as an F should mean something. To the reader it should invoke a response to TELL the WORLD how amazing or horrid you felt about the book. Or I am just a bitch, expect too much and grade too hard.
Now for me the real trick is grading a whole series. The summation.
That is pure hell for me.
Like Amelia Elias ~ The Guardian League…
Hunted gets a B
Outcast gets a D
Chosen gets a A (these days after I re-readed it)
Hunted was good but Chosen for me is where she perfected her vampire world, got the mythology cranking, created some interesting characters to fall in love and went at having fun with it like Laura Leigh on a double espresso shot with a Redbull chaser. Outcast I kept wanting to like and failing.
So what do you do with a series that had a misstep but got back up and started swinging?
I gave it a B overall and hope she aces the next one to raise the score.
I agree with your thoughts on a C. That’s pretty well how I’d view it, average. Something you might enjoy if you’ve read the author’s work before, but maybe not the best to try a new author on.
Oh I would great each book on its own. I really can’t say I bother to grade the overall series. For antho’s I grade each story and basically take an average for the overall book. Generally works out…
I think I’m with the majority. A C = average. I’d give the author another try but wouldn’t nesacarilly (oh crap – I can’t be bothered to figure out how to spell that this am) be anticipating the author’s book unless I’d read better by said author before. But the thing is as somene pointed out – one person’s C could be another person’s A.
As for F’s – I don’t read them because if a book is bugging me that much it becomes a DNF.
When I think of a “C” grade, I think back to school and whenever I would receive a “C” on something, that means I should have done better and C is close to a D. I guess a “C” is different for everyone. Teddy thinks my “C” is more of his “D”. A “D” for me means really bad, barely passing and I think, how could they write crap like this?
Oh DNF for me is a special form of hell. It usually means that it was soooo bad that there was no way I could even review the book without possibly insulting the writer personally. DNF is where I feel I got ripped off.
Sorry, I have to sing this…. “C is for cookie, that’s good enough for me… cookie, cookie, cookie starts with C!”
A “C” book for me is one I can pick up at my local “Friends of the Library” for 50 cents or a dollar. For me, it just means the writer used the same formula many other authors use. While the story may be good, its just not memorable because I’ve probably read it before with some name changes and slight situational changes.
I find it interesting that everyone is equating a C grade to average (fair enough) and then further indicating that this means mediocre, blah, fundamentally flawed, not compelling, etc. Is this really the perception, that the “average” romance* is a ho-hum, keep-it-or-leave-it-and-never-remember-a-word-of-it-either-way book? I wonder why we keep reading them, then.
I think of this because when I went from high school to college, my GPA dropped a full letter grade. I don’t think I got that much dumber (probably), it was just that the average had changed on me. “Average” in college was much better than “average” in high school.
It doesn’t really matter what label you stick on those books you don’t like so well–a C, an N, a 58 or a two-middle-fingers rating. Obviously not every book out there can be an ‘excellent’ read for everyone; we’d all go bankrupt in B&N if that were the case. I find that the books that are OK, imo, make the books that are fabulous all the more fabulous. If all you had were excellent books, wouldn’t you soon start picking shades of excellence to distinguish them? And soon start thinking, ‘well, that book wasn’t actually all that awesome, not compared to this one?’
I say this all as a reader, not as a writer. As a writer, I think everyone is entitled to her own opinion. 🙂
*I assume this topic is limited to romance for the moment–I apologize if not
katiebabs:
When I think of a “C” grade, I think back to school and whenever I would receive a “C” on something, that means I should have done better and C is close to a D.
THAT I don’t get at all… So why is a B good? it is almost a C. So is the only thing worth getting an A?
Doesn’t that send the message that only perfect is acceptable? My lil sis is 13. And she makes herself sick on some test days like… TASP or whatever. If she gets under an A on her report card it crushes her.
She is a SMART smart good kid… completely different than her sister was ;)… and she does it to herself. It makes no sense to me.
As an author, I want a review of one of my books to at least be in the B range. To me, that means that the reader enjoyed it (at least more than average) and that she’d recommend it. C means she could take it or leave it. Maybe she’d recommend it; maybe she wouldn’t.
As a reader, I would say most of the books in my database have a grade of C or lower. That doesn’t mean that they’re bad books — just that they didn’t really capture my interest like an A or B book. That I didn’t find something in the book that blew me away. I’m pretty picky, and it takes a lot to impress me.
As a reader, a C isn’t a bad review. It’s average. Maybe I didn’t like the characters enough. Maybe I had some problems with the plot. Maybe I just didn’t respond to the voice. A C review is a decent book. That’s all. No more, no less. I’d still recommend a C book if I knew someone who liked a particular genre or plotline.
But as an author, when I see anything C or lower, I always cringe. Death by a thousand mediocre reviews … that could be a new form of torture for authors … 😉
Caroline Linden:
I find it interesting that everyone is equating a C grade to average (fair enough) and then further indicating that this means mediocre, blah, fundamentally flawed, not compelling, etc. Is this really the perception, that the “average” romance* is a ho-hum, keep-it-or-leave-it-and-never-remember-a-word-of-it-either-way book? I wonder why we keep reading them, then.
I do equate it to average but unlike many here I think a C+ and a C is still a good grade. Mediocre or blah would be “D”ish. Flawed… could be a c depending on the ‘flaw’.
Forgettable to me isn’t a sin, as long as I enjoyed it while reading it. All books can’t be A+’s. The law of average is just against that I think, well depending on how easy you are to please ;).
I am curious though since I am understanding you to say C doesn’t = average to you… how would you define a C?
I am sorry I am still so interested in this topic. I am prolly driving everyone insane by now.
I’d like to now add a rating of two middle fingers to my blog. Love that.
LOL Jennifer I don’t think that would be a new torture.
I find it funny mediocre keeps coming up because that is so not a C to me.
how would you define a C?
I’m not sure how useful those 5 letter grades are as a ranking system, for me. Some average books I like–they’re like mac-n-cheese, not very original or works of art, but satisfying in a basic way just the same. Some average books I don’t like–they’re like mac-n-cheese made with the wrong cheese or something, just ‘off’ in some way that makes them not satisfying.
I wasn’t even saying Caverage for me. More lamenting that ‘average’ is perceived to be such a bad thing, when I don’t think it always is. Average depends on the sample space–in this case, what books are you comparing it to.
Putting my anthropology and psychology hat on for a while here:
We have an unusual situation in the United States, or perhaps North America: it is no longer ‘enough’ to be average. Everyone must excel, and if they don’t, they have failed somehow. Children are being taught this from an early age, often never being allowed to fail until they get to school having already set these behaviors in stone. Makes life interesting for teachers.
Average is not bad. Average is just, well, average. Neither good nor bad.
Since when is that a bad thing?
I think C is about the worst review grade that can be given. It’s just so meh. In fact, I think B is also meh. Heck, sometimes I think A- is meh, a man I grade A- is one I might bang on the side but not take home to meet Mom. (I’m sorry, before I sold my first book, my greatest known talent was taking tests, and I never liked anything except outright As).
Back to that C grade. As a reader of reviews, I pass those right over. If a reviewer can’t get worked up about it, I probably won’t either. I prefer books that get a strong reaction. Shana Abe’s The Smoke Thief received both a D and an A at AAR, now that’s strong reaction. Okay it was a D+ and an A-, but you get my point.
Yeah, but Sherry, remember that the C you’re seeing is just that reader’s opinion of the book. It may actually be an A to a fan of the author or the genre/subgenre. It’s just that one reader didn’t get worked up about it.
Now, if you see 3 or more C’s from different, varied reviewers, that’s a different matter. It may simply be an average book. But one C does not a bad book make.
The trick to me is to find a reviewer who likes books similar to my tastes. Those C’s I’ll listen to.
Honestly, the grade doesn’t really convince me one way or the other, it’s the commentary I pay attention to. I’ve read “C” reviews but thought, “I HAVE to get that book!!” b/c of the commentary that was in the review. On the other hand, I’ve read “A” reviews that made me think “not interested”, again, b/c of the commentary. Even if the reviewer is gushing about the book~it may be that the topic doesn’t interest me, or the time period, etc. . . .
I’ve gone back in the archives and looked at reviews for my favorite books (on many different review sites). Some reviewers gave my favorites lower grades (C or lower or 60 or lower on Mrs. Giggles). So, it’s really subjective. Reading the commentary is more important for me.
And, like Sybil mentioned regarding her taste vs. Mrs. Giggles~once you get to know certain reviewers you can say “she hated it, I’m gonna love it!!” or vice versa.
I guess it is because I don’t see that the grade really matters.
“My” grade matters to “me”. I expect and even WANT people to disagree with me. I admit I have my books that just make me go what the fuck?!? that make me wonder whoooo could like it?!?!
But those books… I normally want to know who loves them and why. Because I think it is so interesting why we like some things or not. What works for us and what doesn’t. What makes us hit the wall and what makes us lurve madly.
I do have a bit of concern that someone would not understand me, shut up bev, and see a perfectly good book I grade a C and not even stop to look at it. But I don’t really, really, really think that happens.
Gwen is teh smart.
I prefer books that get a strong reaction
Sherry… but isn’t that more in the commentary of what a person says about a book than in the letter grade?
Sez she who hates Flowers in the Storm and doesn’t want to read Bliss or Dance. I know… you are wondering what the fuck you are doing here again aren’t you hon 😉
I pretty much have to say yep and yep to you Tracy.
Isn’t it Sturgeon’s law that 90% of anything is crap? It makes perfect sense that a vast majority of romances are Cs – ie, somewhat mediocre. It’s probably equally true of any other genre.
I agree re Mrs. Giggles – she’s great fun to read, but our tastes are almost the complete inverse of each other’s.
I on the other hand couldn’t stand Shadow and the Star (did not like the hero at all!) but adored Flowers in the Storrm.
I guess you could say grades are also like stars. What deserves 4 stars over 1? That is something Amazon does and when I put my opinion down about a book, I really don’t know how many stars to give it. 5 is better than 4? Only 1 and not 2?
My brain hurts right now. Why not either a smiley or unhappy face instead of grades and stars?
Well I can’t say C = crap or mediocre.
I open a book wanting to read it and wanting to like it. And honestly all books for me start with a C. There has to be a reason that the author gives me to make it a B or F. Or something…
If I expected to hate 90% of what I read I would stop reading romance. Life is too short to drink bad wine.
Katiebabs I didn’t like Shadow and the Star either ;). But it was like the second or so book I read. I have since rebought it to try it again because I loved the first book.
I never really started grading books until recently, and I don’t personally use a letter system.
I guess if I were to think on it, C type book is one that just didn’t have enough umph to it to be remembered, or be kept. There may have been a few good things about it, but for the most part, the author just sort of dropped the ball.
Some people do not weigh their decisions on grades from other people. I tend to not look at other grades until after I have read a book. I go more off of the explanations of what the book was about and what may or may not have worked for that particular reader that I may agree with.
Here is a little story on a letter grade:
One time my sister’s daughter got an F on a spelling test, and when my mom asked her what she was going to get on her next test she answered, “I don’t know, a G?”
Reading through here, it’s becoming clear to me WHY the C-grade has gotten a bad rap. It appears that it can have two meanings– either it means a book was “alright” OR it means the book had problems, but not enough to hate it. I think the two concepts are mutually exclusive. For one, ALL BOOKS HAVE PROBLEMS– there is just no such thing as a perfect book. The trick is deciding to what degree, if any, those problems stopped me from enjoying the book. And maybe that is also how I grade– by the level of enjoyment the book gave me. Screw the problems, they all have them to some degree, but the more I enjoyed a book, despite any problems, the higher I’m going to grade it.
D-grade and F-grade books are the easiest to review for me because there are specific reasons why I didn’t like the book. Usually the hardest part of writing these reviews is knowing when to stop beating the dead horse.
The difference between C+ and B- grades for me is my Rule of Two: if I enjoy a book (not OMG LOOOVE, but enjoyed), then either two days or two books later, if I can still remember a good bit of it, then it’s a B- or B. If all I can remember about it is that I enjoyed it while reading it, then it’s a C+. Because of the current definition of a C-grade here on TGTBTU, a C or C- means I probably enjoyed it overall while reading it, but there were some flaws that bugged me (as opposed to flaws that I could roll with). Sometimes, like with the EC Quickies, they are in such a short format that it is pretty damn difficult (although not impossible) for the story to be developed enough to garner anything more than a C-grade.
For the most part, Sybil has let me say Yea or Nay to books she’s offered to me to review. So it would make sense that I would choose books I think I’m going to like. Which is also why it is most common to see one of the B-grades from me. A B means I enjoyed it, found it fairly memorable, and was able to roll with problems. The B grades are the easiest to try and be objective about when writing the review. Even if a book isn’t exactly my “flavor”, I can usually tell if it rises above what is standard ot typical for that type of story. I already found something enjoyable in the book, I just need to put that in writing. Although, I do try and mention any flaws that might bug the hell out of other people.
And for the record, I’m stingy with the A-grades. An A- means there is something different, and/or outstanding about a book and I will be looking for more books from that author. I’ve been reading books a LOOOOONG-ass time, so it stands to reason that it’s going to be harder for a book to meet my A-grade criteria. An A (in addition to the A- traits) means the author is now an auto-buy and I have booklust for their next release. If I give a book an A+, that means it has now landed on my all-time favorites list. Needless to say, don’t expect to see too many of those from me. But A-grade reviews are also a bit tough for me to write because I have to come up with more than SQUEE! OMG! I LOVE THiS FREAKIN’ BOOK! YOU MUST GO BUY IT SO WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT AND SQUEE OVER IT TOGETHER!
Having said all that though, as others have mentioned, it really does come down to looking at reviews from more than one source, or finding reviewers that share your opinion on enough books that, when they recommend or warn you against a new book, their opinion carries a lot of weight. In fact, Gwen has been (long before I started reviewing here), one of the very few reviewers that could get me to buy a book on her say-so alone without any further research. And that’s because I already knew that her and I shared the same opinions on so many other books.
Oh, and Caroline? I LOVED the mac-n-cheese analogy!
I think that I shall never see,
A sight as woeful as a ‘C’.
It’s arching back, it’s baleful glare,
A bane to author’s everywhere.
A whispering voice in the clamorous seas,
‘Twixt steadfast ‘B’s and lazy ‘D’s.
The plot was thin, the characters flat.
I could use the hero for my puppy-poo mat.
Alone with my pen and my average grade,
I work to fix the sins I’ve made.
Someday they’ll hear, my voice will sing,each word will be a wonderous thing.
Kathleen! That is amazing!! LOL Great poem!
And Bev – I’m with you on the recommendations. You say “it’s good” and I’m at the store buying it.
I like your Rule of Two. It’s a good way to quantify the unquantifiable.
Love the poem Kathleen! That was hilarious.
And I can’t believe that Sybil and Katie Babs didn’t like The Shadow and the Star! Or Samuel! ???
I feel like it’s too late to add anything new to the discussion. But “meh” is pretty much the operative word I’d use to describe C+-C books.
Dev,
Samuel was too busy hanging from the ceiling for me to like him. Meh to him and his Hawaiian sword.
I always rate Excellent, Very Good, Good, Okay, and Disappointing. Translated to letter grades, I supposed that would mean a Good book would be a C; which is fine. So I agree with you on that.
Hehe, Sybil. I couldn’t make it through Flowers from the Storm, too long, too painful, and–says someone who normally loves reading description–too much description. And Dance I can take it or leave it. Bliss is the only one out of the three that I do love. So, ahem, that’s what I’m doing here. 😛
Good quetion.
When I review, a C is not bad. It;s not good either though.
C to C+ means it’s an OKAY read.
C- is bad though.