Or maybe I am misunderstanding? Or the point here is seriously lost, confused or just jack completely…
Gina Black (which btw who is that?) posted on Romantic Times regarding her friend Lisa Valdez:
Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:53 pm Yes! I have seen Lisa and I am delighted to report that she is well. Smile She is staying off the internet and away from email and other such cyberdistractions. I know she truly appreciates her fans, and I assure you she *is* working hard at the keyboard these days.
I can say with assurance that you have a treat ahead. Other than that I cannot say as I am not her spokesperson, but her devoted critique partner and friend.
Gina
Am I the only one who sees that as not all that and a bag of chips? My response is here.
No offense Gina but I think at this point Lisa really can’t assure anything. She is working hard? Is that to say she WASN’T working hard before but now three years later she has decided too? Is that suppose to reassure me? Or better yet as a reader should I care?
Cyberdistractions are all well and good. I can understand needing to ‘disconnect’. And when you have blown your deadline as many times as she has I think it is prolly a good idea to not be connected.
BUT I say this as a reader, a fan and someone who personally likes Lisa Valdez – what message is this sending? I am going to hope she has no idea you posted and this isn’t ‘from’ her. Either the message is insulting or poorly worded… or my reader comprehension is way off because what I get from your message is:
1. Lisa Valdez was lying before when she said she was hard at work on the novel and would soon be finished.
2. She is NOW working hard to finish the novel – the three? four? times before when she was ‘working hard’ to finish it were…. what? practice rounds?
3. “Playing” on the net is one thing but you are saying she can’t be bothered to update a monthly newsletter or follow through what she committed to – not once, not twice, not even three times – to her fans.
4. You can take the time to inform her fans of her status but that is too much trouble for her to do.
So really really, I just hope this was very poorly worded and or done without her approval or proofing the post. Because if she did… as her reader, her fan and someone who has stuck by her I am insulted.
I can say with assurance that you have a treat ahead. Other than that I cannot say as I am not her spokesperson, but her devoted critique partner and friend. Gina
uh, the idea you are her CP and this is your idea of an idea well expressed does not give me hope for the book. Other than that all I can say, is maybe I am just beyond annoyed by now and misreading but I don’t think you are doing your friend any favors with this post.
Sybil
Feel free to tell me I am wrong… and uh what the hell is up with RT website? Their coding seems to be screwed or is that yet another new and nifty screw up with my computer?
Amen and over. I guess I will read the book … maybe? … when it ever comes out, but frankly, the first one was so long ago, and the publishing date changed too often for me to really anticipate this book now.
I can’t comment on the RT part, I never visit their site, simply out of principle LOL.
I’ll be honest, I’m not sure I get the point of this post. To me it seems that Gina’s post was meant to serve as reassurance. I’m not really sure how you deduced from Gina’s post that possibly Lisa wasn’t working hard prior to now. And that her choice of CP might be her “problem”. What problem? That she’s not sending out newsletters and fan updates? Many authors don’t. They find those things cut into their family time or personal time or writing time way too much. And honestly I’d rather wait two or three years between books like I used to do with Woodiwiss. Quality over Quantity any day. And I’ll definitely take a good book over a newsletter. Just my .02.
I think they had so many problems with spam they had to disable their bb coding.
I don’t know. I think the poster’s heart was in the right place — but I agree that at this point, the book just needs to come out instead of more assurances.
But why rip the CP a new one over it? Your four points are well taken, but Valdez’s work is not this woman’s — and there is no hope for the quality of Valdez’s book because a critique partner didn’t read a situation and was hoping for the best in a message? C’mon. That strikes me as personal with the *appearance* of critiquing her post.
Sybil,
Everything you said I have thought. I did enjoy Passion and if Patience had come out when it should I would have bought and read that one also. Hell, even after the first pull. But now this is a case of too many times crying wolf.
But honestly, I have no more Patience for Patience. Wendy, our Super Librarian says Patience is set for a May 2008 release. Funny, wasn’t it supposed to come out May of 2007?
I have too many books to read anyway that come out when they should.
BTW, who is Sybil and why does she diss people she doesn’t know?
Attacking the messenger? What a cheap shot.
Sybil,
I pity your CP!
I agree with you, Meljean.
If you have a problem with the fact that this author has obviously been struggling to get the book out, that is one thing. If you have a problem with her maintaining contact with her fan base, that is another thing.
It’s a cheap shot to criticize someone that is clearly just trying to stick up for a friend. It is not her fault that the book is delayed; it isn’t her book. And it isn’t her responsibility to maintain her crit partner’s fan base. She posted an innocuous enough post in support of a friend.
I can’t knock her for that. That’s the kind of person I’d want as a friend. She stood up and tried to be supportive and enthusiastic about another writer’s career.
If you have a problem with Lisa, talk about Lisa. This is just mean spirited and shallow.
I don’t know Lisa Valdez, and I’m surprised that Gina (with whom I’m acquainted) is her CP. Gina is quiet like that, but I’ve noted she is devoutly loyal to her friends.
Critique partners aren’t responsible for their author friends meeting or not meeting deadlines. That responsibility lies solely with an author. When one writes a book with the accolades that Ms. Valdez’s book received, that can create a lot of pressure. Margaret Mitchell never wrote another book after Gone With The Wind. The pressure to rise above the bar set with a book like Passion must be excruciating, and some writers handle the pressure better than others.
Many readers don’t understand how difficult it can be to write a book. I lost six months on a book last year that won’t see publication, although it was a soul purging experience. Lisa Kleypas recently stated she wrote something like more than half the book when she was writing Sugar Daddy. Then she threw it out and started over. I wish authors could find a way to make readers clearly understand the time and energy that goes into a book. Readers only see the finished product; they don’t see the behind the scenes struggle that goes into a book’s creation. They don’t see the energy drain that occurs during the creative process. There are many things that affect a writer’s ability to write; some of which can be debilitating.
Many authors work hard to keep their private lives private. They don’t share deaths in the family, job losses by spouses, chronic medical disorders, depression, etc. I’m not saying any of these things have affected Ms. Valdez, because the only person who has the whole picture is her. However, if a writer has a private nature, they’re unlikely to post information like that on their website. Truthfully, I’m not sure it’s anyone’s right, except the publisher, to demand to know where a book is. An author’s responsibility to their readers is to provide them with the best book possible. If it takes Ms. Valdez three or more years to give her readers a great book, then the wait will have been worth it.
Most importantly, I find it illogical to think a critique partner has so much power over an author that they’re holding the author back from publication. And it’s a testament to Ms. Valdez’s ability to write a great story when people are still talking about it almost three years AFTER its publication.
AMEN, Monica. Well stated.
Wow, I think the personal attack on Gina wasn’t necessary. She was just trying to be nice.
Gina did not say or imply that Lisa can’t be bothered to do the things you mentioned. She did not say or imply that Lisa was not working hard before. And she clearly said she was NOT Lisa’s spokeswoman in any of these matters.
Your “points”, which attempt to create “facts” based on a short, cheery message from one of Lisa’s cp’s, are generated on faulty logic and a big dose of assumption.
Gina said, quite simply, that Lisa is well, working hard, and trying to limit her distractions so that she can concentrate on her contracted work. She also said she’s read Lisa’s work and thinks others will enjoy it. She’s entitled to her opinion, too.
Since you asked…yes, I think your reader’s comprehension was off on this one. I think Gina deserves an apology.
I can understand that Gina was just trying to “stick up” for her friend and offer positive reassurances. But (and this is a HUGE but), that time has come and gone. This book has been delayed multiple times. Readers aren’t ogres. We understand that real life happens and sometimes deadlines get missed, but when it’s chronic? When the book keeps getting pushed back and pushed back to the point where one wonders if it will EVER appear? Yeah, that’s a bit frustrating and naturally readers aren’t going to be very happy about it. Yes, readers know that writing a book is hard. If it wasn’t hard, everyone would do it! But readers also don’t like being jerked around.
At least for me, it smacks of unprofessionalism. Hey, if I chronically miss my deadlines at work, I’m going to get fired. It’s that simple. I do think that should Patience every appear that the diehard Passion-fans will still snap it up – but that a lot of readers (like me) who only “liked” Passion will likely wash their hands of the entire affair. Is that right? Is that fair? Maybe not. But with 900+ books in my TBR, I can’t afford to wring my hands waiting around for a book that could very well never materialize.
Sybil, what on earth are you going on about?
1. This author does not owe you or any fan a book.
2. To direct your anger at her CP is bizarre behavior.
3. Having this strong of a reaction over a delayed book puts you in the class of “obsessive fan.” Please take this seriously.
4. Your comprehension is frightenly off base, thanks for asking.
Wendy, I agree with all of that, and Sybil’s first four points. The CP’s assurance, while well-intentioned, just has no place any more and it’s empty now. The only thing that could possibly convince me that a book was coming out was seeing it on the shelves.
It’s only the last part I object to — Valdez has shown a lack of communications savvy before on the Internet, but that didn’t mean she couldn’t produce a book like Passion that still has people looking forward to a sequel. So to take a CP’s lack of savvy and suggest Valdez’s writing suffers for it smacks me as a personal jab at Valdez, born of Sybil’s (understandable — because I’m also tired of having dates change and promises come and nothing show up for it) irritation. But still, personal — and so to me, crosses a line.
Meljean:
Agreed. The CP isn’t to blame, but I don’t think anyone should be surprised that the messenger is getting a little buckshot here. How many reassurances are readers going to hear? Excuses, reasons, whatever you want to call them – after a while it doesn’t matter WHO says it, it’s going to start to annoy. Hey, poke a cat with a stick long enough and you’ll eventually get clawed. For me, Sybil’s reaction is indicative to how a lot of readers are feeling right now about Patience. She was just mouthy enough to say it. I’m not saying she’s right – I’m saying I can understand how the constant delays, reassurances, and lack of updates on the author’s web site can be a tinch on the annoying side.
Sybil, I don’t see your questions as a personal attack , I think you are frustrated with the lack of information and I feel the same way.
And I’m sorry but there is simply no excuse for NOT updating your website, what? it takes all of a few minutes to say Hi, I’m still here, I’m working on this….or whatever.
I accept that some authors don’t update every week but its coming up on 1 year with no news from her. Come on!
“I wish authors could find a way to make readers clearly understand the time and energy that goes into a book. Readers only see the finished product; they don’t see the behind the scenes struggle that goes into a book’s creation…”
This statement frankly pisses me off! I would understand better and appreciate their hard work, if they’d MAKE THE EFFORT to help their readers understand their struggles. Don’t blame me for their lack of communication.
I only know of 3 authors who take the time to talk to readers and that’s Lori Foster, Sara Mccarty and Victoria Blynn on the RT board.
They come on all the time, share their experiences, explain the ins and outs of the publishing world. I’ve learned a lot over the years from them.
And I think I do have somewhat of a right to know when a book is coming out. As a reader I am investing time and money in following their books. Lets’ face it the author and I are in this together and since we’re still talking about that damn book 3 years later doesn’t that show you something? We are still supporting her by waiting for the next ones, I wonder if she appreciates our struggle at all.
But it goes too far to put up a post on your blog indicating that what is holding the author back is her critique partner, especially when that is the title of the post.
The problem is obviously that people are frustrated that the new book hasn’t come out.
The crit partner has nothing to do with that. If you’re annoyed that it is another reassurance that you don’t believe, fine.
That’s not this crit partner’s fault. She’s just trying to be supportive. She’s giving her opinion that yes, there will be a new book eventually, and in her opinion it is really good.
Believe her or don’t, but don’t title a post accusing this person of being a ball and chain on the author. That is mean.
She’s giving her opinion that yes, there will be a new book eventually, and in her opinion it is really good.
See, that’s the problem. Readers are tired of hearing “she’s working on it” and “it’s really good.” They just want the book. They don’t want to hear some nebulous voice on the Internet TELL them it’s really good. They want to read it for themselves. Is it fair the CP is getting flack because she was “just trying to be supportive?” Probably not. Should Sybil have said what she said about the CP? Probably not. I’m just saying that it shouldn’t shock anyone that readers are starting to get annoyed.
Monica said – “I wish authors could find a way to make readers clearly understand the time and energy that goes into a book. Readers only see the finished product; they don’t see the behind the scenes struggle that goes into a book’s creation…”
Lauren said- This statement frankly pisses me off! I would understand better and appreciate their hard work, if they’d MAKE THE EFFORT to help their readers understand their struggles. Don’t blame me for their lack of communication.
My comment was not meant to piss anyone off, and it certainly wasn’t meant to imply that readers are to be blamed for communication issues. It was a genuine statement aimed at pointing out that creativity is not as easy as some authors make it seem. There are some authors who spin out book after book as if they dictated the perfect manuscript the first time. Not all of us are like that.
I am a full-time author AND I hold a full-time day job. I work hard at communicating with my readers, but this in turn bites heavily into my writing time. I try to balance it, but it’s almost a damned if I do, damned if I don’t situation. I don’t doubt there are some readers who do understand there are extenuating circumstances with some authors. But I also know there are readers who don’t understand.
As for authors talking over on the RT board. I don’t have a strong presence there, but I do pop in to chat periodically. Not about my books, but about things that interest me. I try not to do drive-by posts that ticks off readers. I’ve found RT’s boards a pleasant community with diverse interests. I wish I had more time to spend there, but I’m busy interacting with my reader BB, my reader group, my publisher lists, my blog, and several reader loops. I realize that’s not the reader’s problem, but it’s a statement that there are a number of authors who do communicate with readers in the manner I think you would like to see more of.
Monica
I can understand that annoyance, but it is unfair to unload it on the CP.
If you are frustrated with the author because the book is not out, then aim that frustration at the author.
To suggest that the post is poorly worded, and so therefore this CP is crap, and it must be the CP’s fault that the book is not out because obviously the CP is giving crappy advice, is so far off base, I don’t know where to begin. That is what the title of this post and the last paragraph imply to me.
If you want to say, “That’s nice, but at this point we are so frustrated we don’t want to hear it,” say that. Don’t attack the CP personally.
To me, it sounds an awful lot like people are frustrated with the author, but don’t want to offend the author so they’re going to draw and quarter her CP doing what a CP does, support. Again I say that is mean and unfair, and reeks of internet bullying.
That’s all I have to say.
First, it’s not the crit partner’s fault, but why does she feel the need to come online and talk about LV and her progress? Why can’t LV do that for herself, take a brief five minutes for an update, ya know? I think it’s because she was BSing before and now finally got her groove back. I have to tell you that I probably would BS too rather than let anyone know that I’ve got a severe case of writer’s block that just won’t quit because you can lose your agent, contract, and so much more over that.
I do think that any updates on her progress, if she wants them publicly known, should be made by LV herself.
Katie,
I have NEVER said I have principles. You should so know better
Melissa
I totally agree. And it should be noted, I loved Passion. And uh… Lisa has guest blogged here. And said the same thing pretty much that Gina did. 2? 3? years ago. My “problem” is what makes now different. Why should I be reassuranced?
And you are totally and completlely correct. NO author OWES any reader anything. Anymore than any reader OWES an author anything. I call ‘fowl’ over saying you are going to do something and not doing it. Repeatedly.
Over
And
Over
AND I say that likeing Lisa because I do, I just think she is fucking her career. And I hate to see that. I hate to see a waste of talent. I hate to see a book deal with no book – when there are so many books without deals that are just as faboo.
As far as Gina goes… don’t lie to me. It tends to annoy me. Where I think her heart is in the right place, I think it is fucking with Lisa Valdez’s fans to ‘reassure’ them when nothing is different today than it was yesterday. As well as it sucks to get fans hopes up because if they do dash – Lisa Valdez will be the one who pays for what she didn’t even say.
Yep, yep. More than a tinch, IMO.
Sybil said: “Or maybe I am misunderstanding? Or the point here is seriously lost, confused or just jack completely…”
Well, since you started your post with this statement, I’ll say you did misunderstand. To imply that Lisa’s choice of CP (as stated in the title) is the reason for the delays in her next novel being published is theatrical and petty.
The CP isn’t responsible for writing the book, sending out newsletters, or updating websites.
If you must whine, then blame the author. Don’t flame Gina Black just because you can. That’s not going to win you readers to this blog.
It should be noted that not all delays are the author’s fault. Publishers can and DO change release dates. They can have what the author believes is a finished product and decide they want more – serious – edits, thus delaying a book release.
I don’t know Lisa and I wouldn’t know anything about this situation but for this blog post. But it seems to me that it was a very mean-spirited post and the attack on an uninvolved party says more about you than anything Lisa or her CP may have done. And since your mother obviously never told you, allow me…if you don’t have anything nice to say, DON’T SAY ANYTHING!
Meljean
oh, well honestly I wasn’t ‘ripping’ the author as much as being a smartass.
I think she meant well too, I am just way tired of everyone meaning well… even myself to a point. Because I have definded her over and over and over. And stopped a while ago… because no matter what… saying it over and over doesn’t make it happen. And it encourages fans, gets their hopes up, and where people need to be grown ups and if they repeatedly drink the kool aid they get what they get – CP’s and Friends and those who saw that chick who knows a chick who’s really good friends with Lisa and sez… really should shush.
Because if they truely ARE her friends, CP’s or whatever they are doing nothing but helping her kill her rep. Because noting is different now than it was and it is shitty to get fans hopes up.
Is Gina the devil? Of course not nor is she the first person in two years to say what she said… just the first one this year.
No. It is not set for ANY date. It has not passed go… but it has collected $200 dollars… so go figure. It was at one point though – so I am in NO way saying Wendy is teh stupid. No really. See if I was I would say… Wendy, you are stupid.
Sort of like if I was saying Gina was the big bad evol I would say – Gina you are the big bad evol. What I meant… is what I oddly enough said. Gina isn’t doing anyone any favors – readers or Lisa Valdez.
Who is Lin and why does she post at people’s blogs if she doesn’t know who they are?
No worries Gloria, Gwen is fine. Is Lin your CP or do you guys just share a computer and IP?
Who really is Sybil? She is an enigma. LOL
I think Patience needs a new title.
if you don’t have anything nice to say, DON’T SAY ANYTHING!
Why is it always the people whom you know damn well never follow this advice who always can be counted on to spew it forth?
Sybil is a whore, we should seriously seriously hate her. I mean who does she think she is? No one told her she was allowed to have an opinion.
And ON OWN HER OWN BLOG. For shame.
Well..this was fun. Sybil, can’t you go a week without creating drama? LOL
Here’s my take, having never read Passion (and having no desire to now that I know we’ll probably never get the next book):
I think Syb was being a smartass about the CP. That’s how I originally read it. Maybe because I know her, maybe because I, too, am a smartass..who knows. But I didn’t take it to mean, “Gina is evol”, just Syb being Syb. Of course, I can see where others thought she was saying Gina was evol, but I don’t think she meant it that way.
As for what Gina said to begin with..well…I understand her heart was probably in the right place. But! As a reader, I don’t really care. I’ve seen other authors blow their deadlines, too. Judith McNaught is a great example. I don’t think she’s released a book on time since I started reading her. But she at least says, “Sorry, it will come, just not right now”. Something to keep us going. Plus, she has a huge backlist. I’m thinking LV is only hurting herself with her silence.
And, I completely agree that it’s unprofessional. Whether it was the publisher, the author, or whoever else that decided to keep pushing it back (writers block, badly written story, edits, whatever) doesn’t matter. What matters it that fans of her first book have anxiously been awaiting a book that doesn’t seem to exist. Like I said in the beginning of this…that doesn’t make me want to buy the first book. Or probably any book this author writes. That’s not personal, that’s professional. Just like Wendy said, if I didn’t do my job, or make my deadlines, I’d get fired. Sounds to me like a lot of readers “fired” LV.
Seems to me you could take that a step further–if you have nothing useful to say, keep your trap shut (as in don’t go talking about a book that’s not slated for a release anytime soon?! Si yes?!)
I think Patience needs a new title.
Vampuscript [vam-pyuh-skript]
–noun
A book that sucks up public acclaim and attention but you know it will never see the light of day.
Like maybe Hurry the Fuck Up
Oops I guess that would be Impatience
😀
Dude……for real.
Lucy, the above quote puts you firmly on the ‘Fucktard’ list.
And no, my mother obviously didn’t bring me up properly.
Syb, I got your point. We don’t need any more reassurances, we’d just like to see a new book.
Has anybody considered that she may be literally a one-book wonder? You know, in the same way that Tiffany was a one-hit wonder?
If ‘being mean’ won’t bring new readers to a blog, why is it that whenever there’s a dust up, new *coughcockpuppetscough* commenters come out of the woodwork?
My mother didn’t bring me up properly either, obviously, ’cause what she said is, “if you don’t know what’s going on, keep your mouth shut–until you *DO* and then spew away.” Less ladylike, to be sure, but oh so much more fun! (and practical)
Do you have your own blog because you’re a bitch or because you have no friends who want to speak to you face to face? Anyone can have a blog – it doesn’t make you important or suggest you know anything. What a wonderful epitah – she had a blog where she slandered people and was just generally a hard ass.
Okay… I’m laughing myself silly at the typo–I sincerely meant sockpuppets, no the other puppets. Srsly!!
LMAO! Don’t lie Azteclady, you meant to say “cock”..we all know it. 😛
I’m to the point where if the book comes out, great, I’ll buy it, but if it doesn’t then it doesn’t. I went through the same thing with a Judith McNaught book a long time ago. There was word it was coming and then it was delayed, then it was being released, but then no it was being delayed again. I’ve kind of learned that there is plenty else out there until something comes out. The only problem with continual delays is that by the time the book comes out, I’ve already moved on to other likes in my reading taste. I wish Valdez the best of luck, though. Personally, It’s probably best she does stay away from the net. Some authors do it well, and others do not. I kind of wish she’d just get rid of her website, cuz at this point I feel like it’s taunting me.lol.
Does anyone know who Gloria is talking about?
Because I think most of the people commenting here (most of the people in the US, for that matter), have their own blog.
Just asking…
The new title can be Cock Puppets! ;D
No. It is not set for ANY date. It has not passed go… but it has collected $200 dollars… so go figure. It was at one point though – so I am in NO way saying Wendy is teh stupid. No really. See if I was I would say… Wendy, you are stupid.
The databases I have access to at work still say May 2008 – which is what I reported to katiebabs. Doesn’t mean I necessarily believe it 😉 At this point I won’t believe the book is coming out until I see it sitting on the shelf at Borders……
Katiebabs – I did a little bit of a spit-take when I read your comment.
Azteclady – we’re all laughing WITH you, not AT you. Promise. No, really!
Gwen, no worries, I wouldn’t mind either way (besides, I’m still giggling)
As a reader who loved Passion and wrote my first ever letter to an author I can say I totally understand what Sybil wrote. Sure, maybe Gina got some blood on her but hey, I don’t want to hear anything about LV until a freakin’ book is out.
I have given up on Patience ever being published.
As to authors and the web, there are plenty of authors who don’t have websites – Linda Howard is a prime example. You don’t have to have a web presence, I don’t really care if you do. BUT, if you decide you have one and then you do newsletters telling me about how you are hard at work on your book but ‘oooops’ I’m missing my first deadline. Fine. I’m still okay with that. Course, you tell me this a third time and then disappear? I’m not believing you anymore.
So here’s a hint, if you are an author with any sort of blog or website and you have to ‘unplug’ do what Meljean does and say ‘hey, on deadline, I’ll be back when I can breathe’.
So I feel bad for Gina in that she felt the need to come to her friends defense because that is what friends do. Thing is, let it go. And I’m sure Gina has learned the hard way not to try and talk to another author’s fans. Especially ones who have been hearing the same song and dance for too long now.
As an aside, I saw cockpuppet and the visual was perfect for what you were trying to say anyways 😉
CindyS (another mean whore bitch with an opinion and a blog – guess that means no one likes me in real life either)
*outraged gasp!*
Tiffany had more than one hit! There was “I Think We’re Alone Now” AND “Could’ve Been”!
It could’ve been so bee-yoooootiful
It could’ve been so right
*sob sob*
Meljean, you forgot her other fabu hit “I Saw Him Standing There”
Those were the days before cock puppets and sex with strangers in museums behind screens.
To Gloria: Well, I’ve met Sybil face to face and I hope I do so again ’cause I really like her – so that one’s out. As for being a hard ass – yeah she can be one, but what on earth is wrong with that??? I wish I was more of one!
As for the rest of it, I think there are a lot of people waiting for Lisa Valdez’s next book and I think as an author who knows this, it would be in her best interest to come out every once in a while and just say – look, things have been delayed for such and such a reason – I’m still working on it and I hope it’s every thing readers hope for – or some such thing.
Me – I’ve lost interest. If it comes out, it comes out. In the meantime there are plenty more books to read.
All this for Hephestus?
pfft.