This started out as a short lil comment on this post, regarding “DNF Reads” [aka did not finish]. I, as I tend to do, went off on a ramble. So hey new post!
Caroline Linden brought up the DNF thing but this post in whole is in no way directed AT her. Wanted to make that is clear (‘net communication being what it is), although anyone who has been around TGTBTU prolly knows I am rather fond of Caroline, adore many of her books and sometimes disagree with her. As well as this is not, to use a phrase I HATE ‘getting anyones back‘ because I happen to think smart woman are more than able to speak or themselves.
I, of course, should never, ever, evah post at 4amish after just waking up. But what the fuck, that has never stopped me before. This gets long, you may need a nap… [yes go ahead and mock me Bam :)] I know… aren’t you glad the blog move stuff is just about fixed and we are back to blogging *g*. Damn I missed you guys.
Authors need to give us credit as readers. We do have brains. Why would anyone assume I couldn’t read a post, review or comment and not see it for what it was? Why is it assumed that if it is in print it will ALWAYS be believed? I have had one blogger in 3 years tell me she expects to be believed, always, everyone else I have ever asked excepts and assumes readers will use their brains and decide for themselves.
If someone is telling me they read 50 pages or less of a book, I ‘get’ they aren’t reviewing it. Just as much as I will disregard any book with 30 ‘5 star’ reviews. That tells me the author has gotten bad reviews removed or was so boring no ‘real’ reader was moved to talk about the book. It reeks of agenda, more so than the few ‘bad’ reviews from those evol people ‘out to get the author‘.
Of couse that could just be me.
Barbara Vey, who was just the nicest woman evah, is blogging on Publisher Weekly. What does it say to people when she implies readers of reviewers can’t form their own opinion and that she will not ‘review’ on her blog. Does Publisher Weekly not do reviewers? Is it just for the lil women in romance that can’t handle the truth?
Will a good or bad review, make or break an author? No, I don’t think so. But I seriously think ‘word of mouth’ can help. It is beyond sad a blog on Publisher Weekly is being used in such a way but hey seems some of the authors like it. There are more than a few comments in Vey’s thread, right or wrong, have impacted how I view them commenter or things about them.
Roxanne St. Claire, an author I like and a person I liked when I briefly met her (it was prolly give mins total), tells me to skip over any review I see with her name when she sez:
I don’t ever review books I didn’t like, but I love to gush if I’ve discovered a gem.
So I now know to disregard any ‘review’ from her but that wouldn’t keep me from reading her books, which I happen to like.
Deborah Macgillivray, who seems to do herself no favors when she posts in public, rants:
You get fifteen-year-olds telling you how to write a book. People with hatchets – fans of an authors that consider another author competition. Frustrated writers that have been rejected by a publisher hitting all their writers to get even. Or just topic resentment. Anyone can post anything, including slander or personal attacks, such as when Anne Rice killed off her vampire series. People actually accused her of not writing her books, but that her dead husband had penned them. Amazon did NOTHING. Rice even came to post trying to stop, and it only was gasoline upon the fire. Stalker reviewers slam every book an author writes. Some with more than one “fake name”. Worse, the author has no recourse. If the poster crosses the posting rules, and the review is taken down, they go ballistic and will spam all your reviews with no votes, draw in friends to attack. There are people obsessed with being top reviewers that spam no votes on “their Amazon Enemy”. I have seen reviews posted and it’s clear they haven’t read the book. Worse, it’s not enough for them to disagree with the books, they rant that others who do like the books are liars and “paid shills”. You either agree with their negative reviews or you’re stupid or paid.
Sigh. The whole set up is open to everyone who has a problem with something to vent and Amazon plays ostrich to cyber stalking and cyber bullying, and in the case of the top reviewer it became a cyber lynch mob. I am not defending if a person can read 45 books a week or not. No matter, take it to Amazon management, do not attack people in public.
Since I have seen her enter Amazon Message Board posts attacking people in public, this post makes me giggle. The sad thing is, it is very possible she is right about the person but that is lost in her delivery.
Her tone, ‘reviewer status’ which is mostly if not all (at least of what I have seen & on books by her publisher) 5 star, shows she is adding to the problems she sees in the amazon system. Months ago after seeing her and friends, spank some reviewer for being a meanie I decided to not read her. Ever. Will this mean anything to her, doubt it, but it does allow me to know she doesn’t ‘review’. No one ‘reviews if all they do is pimp because if I can’t get a feel of what they like AND dislike, I have no idea if their views match up with mine.
Jennifer LaBrecque, of Highland Fling fame (currently has a total of 8 amazon reviews and by quick glance there are a few missing she had reported to remove), is nice enough to let us know what may be allowed in a review of her books:
I have all the respect in the world for a reviewer who can professionally , insightfully point out that a book perhaps missed the mark because characters weren’t fully developed or plot devices were so contrived. I have less than no use for “reviewers,” and I use that term loosely in conjunction with these people, who a) cross the line by giving away plot points or specific twists in the story the author has worked so hard to create, b) come across as so frothing at the mouth it does feel quite like a personal attack, c)obviously see the “review” as a forum for their scathing wit and scintillating insight, d)All of the above. And no, I don’t read reviews until after I’ve made up my own mind.
This is pretty much a repeat of what went down durning her fling phase, so it was easy for me to know when, The Big Heat, came out not to bother buying it, even though I wanted it. Hey! I am a Harlequinwhore and bounty hunters… WOOT! But I know if the book doesn’t work for me, for whatever reason, my opinion will not be valid. So my money wouldn’t be either, nor would my review or praise if I did like it. If you as an author can’t respect me, I have no reason to respect or support you.
I am not sure what to make of Jenna Black’s comment regarding not being able to read a review and still form her own opinion but I can respect the hell out of her saying:
And I’ve finally learned to stop reading Amazon reviews of my own books. If I read some of the nasty ones, I’d have trouble writing for days, and I can’t afford that when I’m on deadline!
Christie Craig, a past guest on the blog and all around cool chick, makes me want to beat my head against the wall by comparing reviews to grade school. I won’t bore you all again with Average = C = not a bad thing = your review isn’t a test and no really you are out of grade school please grow up. But this:
It’s about the belief that negativity sells. And to some degree and as sad as it is, they must be right because look at the popularity of the shows and websites that play that card.
Completely disregards any opinion of any book a reader has, unless they say WOOT luved it. Is that really all authors want? Again I ask, if no one tells you anything but happy, happy, joy, joy things about your book, writing or style… can you believe that? Does anyone honestly think that everyone will love their book and those that don’t, well it isn’t the book it is the person trying to use negativity. Really?
Jusy believes author all author quotes on books are honest and make a book worth a look while saying she doesn’t read ‘reviews’. I guess because reviewers aren’t honest like those author quotes are. Peggy Young shows her love for the ‘net with
And Amazon reviews are like all things internet: Consider the source.
Really doesn’t everyone know review sites are JUST like amazon reviews? Yes that was sarcasm.
Lynn Raye Harris, I have no clue if this is the author or not, has learned from Vey and Publisher Weekly
I would never, ever post a negative review. I have to admit that I often don’t think about posting a positive review either, but some of the comments here make me realize that if I like a book, I should say so.
Go team them! They have sure taught her a lesson, lil woman you best be positive otherwise shut the duck up!
Marilyn enforces the good view people can have of review sites by letting us know she reviewed for one of ‘those review sites’. You know the ones that ONLY allow the correct type of reviews, the good ones.
le sigh… by the time I got to Kate Douglas comment I decided I was wasting time I would never get back. Sad to know though she learned nothing from her Wolf Tales book. The fact that she is on number 5 or something of that series just blows my mind but the fact that she is must mean she is selling. It has to mean people ARE enjoying her books but that doesn’t matter, she is still trying to teach meanie reviewers a lesson because… because… WHY??? I seriously do not get it. Take your success, enjoy your fans and do not try and talk others into why they should love your work or at least keep their dislike of it to themselves.
If people can not say they don’t like a book than everyone needs to stop talking about the books they DO like. You can not have your cake and eat it too. Gosh would that be ‘fair’? I happen to think Jennifer St. Giles is a great author and was too sweet when I met her but that so doesn’t give her the right to decide my
moral obligation to be objective about the subject, giving an opinion on the positives found and a constructive critique on any overwhelming negatives.
I am more than capable of figuring out my moral obligations
all on my own and I am a READER. I am not an editor, I do not get paid to give constructive critique and damn me if I am going to pay an author to provide her with a free service after the fact. At the end of the day, MY opinion is only RIGHT and FACT for me. I know that, you know that, give romance readers a lil credit that they know that as well.
There are a ton of more comments there, although not mine, if you would like to go read. I am gonna try not to go back cuz it just annoys the fuck out of me. Why does it annoy? Hell I just got finished saying it is opinion and everyone – even the small minded-my way-or no way types – have the right to their opinion… well as Jane posted RWA doesn’t feel it can ‘give’ press passes to internet media unless it is “affiliated with a nationally distributed media source”.
Publisher Weekly is the first on its list in the email Jane republished.
So isn’t RWA enforcing women don’t have brains, can’t handle crit or be able to read a review and form an opinion when they say Publisher Weekly, who endorses and houses a blog that doesn’t want to cloud readers minds with ‘opinion’. She may not like all book but no worries authors you are safe there because she won’t tell the silly romance readers what she thinks. It is the same attitude you get at Michelle’s Lifetime Blog [another blog “affiliated with a nationally distributed media source”], for those real women with no spine who can’t grasp the idea that someone, somewhere might not like their work, might have an opinion or not like something. We are women! We must support each other and the ONLY way to do that is only say happy, shiny things. Otherwise… what? Authors will cry?
Way to the illustrate how much we respect the genre, our authors and our readers. It was always been my thought, and again just my lil opinion, we have no business bitching about the world at large looking down its nose at romance when romance readers can’t respect it. And this is the ‘press’ RWA wants reporting at the conference.
Honestly I had pretty much made plans not to go to San Fran because A. It is going to be expensive as hell and B. I do not agree with the idea “fans” should be there. I had decided it was worth going for the blog and the plans I made for this year regarding The Good, The Bad and The Unread (more on that in another Bamworthypost *g*) but I didn’t want to contribute to the idea that fangrrls should flock to a writer conference.
But hell if this is the information we will be getting? Yikes. It is a seriously good thing Jane and the Smart Bitches can afford to go. There should be a balance between a love of the genre and a want to report on it. It seems from first glance, RWA will be encouraging “OMG you are just the bestest author ever interviews” and “Real” reporters who you know, always often present romance in a bodice ripper way. As if we have nothing to offer and are not the top selling genre. I am sorry but Dan Brown, Nicholas Sparks, James Patterson and on and on and on should all write Nora Roberts, Julie Garwood, Linda Howard and the rest of the consistent romance sellers a fucking thank you note.
So back to me… cuz you know everything is about me… will I be going this year? Maybe. I do have a rekindled interest in attending now, yes I know, I do feel shame in the ‘tell me I can’t and then I must’ thing I have going on but hey we all have our issues.
We will have a ton of ‘real views from real media’. Copy & pasting another writers words??!? well of course it is wrong… but this… this is ‘just’ romance. We are ‘just’ woman. It is ‘just’ entertainment. ::pats head and smiles at the child woman. There there, no worries of needing to use your brain in THAT genre.
I am sorry but I will take over thinking and boring posts (WHAT? I have a short attention span) 100 times over mindless chatter. And “I” like mindless sqqquuueee’ing. I am all for fun, fun, fun. Hell I can’t stand stupid ass cover model gawking but can appreciate others DO enjoy it. They have fun with it, whatever. YAY. But what? It is ok to allow that and just smile and giggle alone with their fun (because fun does spread and can’t we enjoy people having fun, even if some of us don’t ‘get it’). But it isn’t ok to think, smile and giggle along with that fun along with posts about romance novels in a way that can be critical? LE GASP that might hurt a feeling?!?! How dare us.
The fact there are authors beating the Smart Bitches because of how they run their own site. OMG they cuss!!! OMG they are mean!! OMG watch them kick a poor, con artist who has made a ton from her mad skilz copying and pasting old woman who didn’t know better. And why didn’t she know better? Because she was female and had lived on the earth for a while. OMG look at that name… the shame… the horror! That makes me sad, doesn’t it make you sad? I admit I don’t agree ‘how’ it was done, for way different reasons it seems and mostly because I am a selfish and have a short attention span. And I thought (incorrectly) it was a obvious thing. That was way stupid of me because I sent an ARC of a Janet Daily book, which was rewritten from a harlequin published in 78? in one of Gwen’s review boxes. I sent it because I thought it was a really bad book and thought it would be amusing for her to skim.
I didn’t put a note. I didn’t email her or say anything because I didn’t think to… doesn’t EVERYONE know about JD and Nora Roberts? No they don’t but that is a story for another post.
I love this genre. I adore many a writer. I happen to think the websites romance is lucky enough to have, kick some serious ass. As well as I think untalented authors, whose main contribution to the genre is attempting to be coy, ‘snarky’ and clever while ironically doing to bloggers, who do a hell of a lot to bring attention, respect and readers, what they condemn them of doing are pretty much a waste of space. But more power to them that is their corner of the world to rule, or private hidden message board, or you know both.
Of course that doesn’t stop me from thinking they should just go flock themselves. Or go watch them be clever, coy, snarky all while not naming names ::wink wink, nudge nudge:: because they are oh so much better than THOSE people. Look at them mock the silly lil women fangrrls (aka people who would, you know, buy their books) who have no brain to think of their own and are mindless to resist the power of TEH blogger. Just don’t forget to ignore their own fangrrls worshiping at the alter of their greatness (that is different mind you).
It seems like nothing more than watch me [try to] out bitch a bitch. And as Vey sez, her blog, her rules. Shouldn’t that go for everyone? Does that make anyone better than another? Life is too short to drink bad wine, enjoy whatever the fuck you want to. If you don’t like something, create your own space. You wanna dislike how others do things, woo hoo go team you, but never forget as much as you have a right to dislike their wa,y ten to one many dislike yours, so getting pissed off about it… sort of makes you look like a jackass.
All of them are right, EXCEPT the people who think it is ok to tell others how they are suppose to run their own corner of the world. And no that isn’t my point here, I think ferflock and her merry band should just keep on keeping on, creating snarky sites to do it right and abandoning them, one after the other after the other. They can post their bitchy comments about bitchy bloggers, to delete them, even though their have their private cage because where is the fun if no one sees you make an arse of yourself? Michelle can seek approval, friends and a contract [does it mean something that Smart Bitches have one but…] by being nothing but nice and crown every person who is fortunate to run across her blog (and get it to load) one of ‘her’ bellas. And for the record I never had or have issue with people who post there, my issue was/is/remains to be only way to support women is by being a cheerleader (again a post for another day). Vey can have a stable of authors who like her, really, really like her, because they never have to fear a ::le gasp:: an opinion, much less a mean one. Mean of course being critical because all reviews are about the author not the book and by stoopid women with agendas who want knothing but to ruin the author. oops that was sarcasm again…
But do not, do not, do not, sit there and say that is THE only way. THAT is how it is DONE or should be because for every whorish pbwfangrrl there are smartbitchy and/or Dear Author ones. And they are all right – for them.
*I* can decide for myself who is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’. And I am just stoopid enough to think every other reader over the age of 14 can read and comprehend as well. I may not agree with them, but I value their voice and get really pissy when anyone tries to silent the voice of other people. Make those people women, and I go past pissy to ranty.
Every romance reader, regardless of sex, race, religion and sexually orientation has an opinion. And I for one would like to hear it, even. if. you. don’t. agree. with. me. Hey this is my blog, my world, my way…. and damn I can ramble. I doubt anyone is even still here. I wouldn’t have read this far *g*. See what happens when sybils can’t blog *g*.
So now I will shut the duck up… so tell me… what do you think? Of really anything mentioned cuz fuck if I can recall what my point was 😀
Your point, if I may be so bold, is it isn’t enough to simply be a cheerleader. Nor is it enough to simply be a snarky bitch. As with most things in life, balance must be sought. Moderation must be acheived.
And life’s too short to read crap, much less spend much time talking about it. Unless it’s really crappy crap – then it’s kind of fun to point out the particularly craptastic bits. And, really, why shouldn’t we?
The only thing I object to is when the reviewer uses the review as an excuse to attack the author, not the book. Or when the reviewer sees herself as more important than the book, and the snark becomes the thing, rather than the book.
I do read book reviews, and they do help me to make up my mind what goes on my next Amazon order, but I’ve learned the reviewers whose taste concurs with mine. There’s a reviewer on All About Romance, for instance, who likes the same kinds of books that I like, so I trust her judgement, and another who loves what I dislike. Fair enough, thank goodness there are so many about in that case, but I wouldn’t trust her judgement when I’m choosing a book to buy, just because our taste doesn’t coincide.
When I read a book review I do like it to be about the book, which is why I like the reviews here and over at DA. My own books have been reviewed here and there, and they haven’t always been good, but they have been about the book and they have made it clear that it’s the reviewer’s opinion, so that’s fine. Great, actually.
There will always be trolls and people who live for snark alone, but it’s a lot better for our blood pressure if we learn who they are and accept that they will always be with us!
IMO
There will always be trolls and people who live for snark alone, but it’s a lot better for our blood pressure if we learn who they are and accept that they will always be with us!
Totally agree but I think those people, those reviews… it is pretty obvious. Don’t you?
Syb, you ramble when you post @ 4am. 😉
But I think I get the gist of your post.
Loving something doesn’t mean you should blind to the criticism of it. Criticism is crucial because criticism points out what needs to be changed~or at least well-written or well-articulated criticism should. Constructive criticism is a useful tool in most, in not all areas of life.
I’m not a reviewer. For many reasons, one of them being because I have no desire to be. Another one, reviews do tend to get a bit more notice and consideration if it’s not something along the lines of….
this bk totally sux. dont buy it.
But I’m not always the diplomatic type. I rarely analyze why I didn’t like a book. So I can’t always explain just why in terms of other than… it didn’t work for me.
More, too often for an author, it can be a dicey road saying that you didn’t care for a book, even if you politely state just that. Especially if it’s a popular author. You can either have fellow authors think you’re picking on somebody, that you’re trying to score points against some imagined competition, or you face the risk of having some overly zealous fans decide you have a hate-on for this author and it’s their mission in life to cure you of it.
There are enough reviewers out there and since I have no desire to do it, I’ll leave to those who enjoy it. The few times I do gush about a book, it’s one that I’ve truly enjoyed. But it’s my opinion and choice, and not because I was asked to do so.
One person’s opinion should count as much as anybody else’s. I am firmly of the mind that a well-thought out opinion is going to be received more openly than just a rant. Rants are equivalent to yelling and when people yell at me, I often tune them out. But not everybody thinks the same, not everybody feels the same and that’s fine.
If I don’t like the way a person presents their opinion, I’ll most likely leave before trying to get to the bottom of what the opinion is. No sweat off my shoulders. But if it’s an opinion that clashes with mine, as long as it’s well thought out, I’ll probably hang around long enough to see what this person has to to say and if I feel moved, throw in my own two cents.
Criticism doesn’t always equal mean girl and the writers who think so need to develop thicker skin. This is a business~yes, we take things a little more personally than other businesses, but writing is a personal thing. It comes from inside. It’s natural to be protective of it. But if you put words to paper/PC/Column/blog/whatever, you’re going to eventually get criticized and that’s just a fact. Sometimes you can learn from that criticism, but if you’re going to take it personally, you’re better off just not reading it.
Um…I am not sure why I get credit for starting this; all I said was I personally find reviews like “This book sux I only read 50 pages but it sux” useless. A DNF review that reads “This book was OK until chapter 10, when the hero slapped the heroine around and I find that unforgivable so I stopped reading” is a little more helpful, but only because it warns people there’s something in the book that might give them the squicks. I mean, there are beloved romances that feature rape, child abuse, murder, slavery, prostitution, etc. so it’s not like there’s a list of Unforgivable Plot Elements that make a book b-a-d. It is absolutely the reader’s perogative to hate a book because the hero is named after the guy who broke up with her in sixth grade, or because the heroine used a dirty word, or the premise made no sense or the humor was flat or ANY reason that means something to her. I never think the reader/reviewer is flawed or stupid, just that her review of an unfinished book does nothing for me. And I still stick by my saying, if you didn’t finish it, why are you spending so much time talking about it? My DNFs are just gone, from house and mind. After all the mind-numbing books I had to read in college and then write ten pages about, it’s a relief to just say no.
A lot of authors go by Roxanne St. Claire’s statement. Here’s how you can interpret it: “if I say this book is good, I think it’s really good. No, like REALLY good, you should go buy it right now and clear your calendar.” Many authors would view a negative or critical review of their book, by another author, as friendly fire. Sure, we expect the take some hits on review sites and blogs and Amazon, but…et tu, Brute? I don’t see how that has to render a review by Roxanne St. Claire useless; she didn’t say, “I would pick and choose something nice to say about a book even if I overall hated it, because it would be mean to say I hated it.” THAT would be disingenuous. (I don’t know Roxanne at all, btw, but I love her name; always did, from Cyrano…sigh…)
I think you’re reading too much into Barbara Vey’s reluctance to post reviews. She’s not OBLIGATED to do so; just as you are free to post whatever your thoughts are on a book, she’s just as free not to. Reviews DO influence people, sometimes for good (OMG, I never would have tried this awesome book if you hadn’t told me it was so good!) or bad (you skank, you said this sucked so I didn’t read it for two years and now I think it’s awesome!). I think there used to be this site called http://www.romanticadvances.com that was just going to post blurbs of upcoming books, to let people see what was coming out soon to help them write their TBB lists… wonder what happened to that site… it seemed like a nice idea…
First of all, we have a problem with semantics here– those Amazon COMMENTS, at least most of them, should NOT be called, nor should they be considered, REVIEWS. Period. They are reader comments and that is a HUGE distinction. I’ve seen comments like, “This book was awful. I don’t like sex in books and this one had too much of it!” directed at EROTIC ROMANCES!
So, are they COMPLETELY worthless? No, not at all. When I’m weeding through hundreds of books trying to research what is worth buying, I look at a few 5 star comments to see what people loved about the book, then a few 3 stars and lower comments to see what the worst of the complaints are. There has actually been many a time that the 3 star and lower comments have SOLD the book to me, and just as many times that the 5 star comments made me realize the book just wasn’t of interest to me.
As for review sites where every single book is a 4.5-5.0 star, heart, clover, or other Lucky Charms marshmallow– well, to me, those sites exist for the AUTHORS only and have no benefit to me as a Reader. There are a couple of sites I’ve dropped because I strongly suspect they are PAID REVIEWS.
It stands to reason that a review site (including TGTBTU) would be skewed toward higher grades because we, as reviewers, select what books interest us. But, when every book is ONE OF MY FAVORITE BOOKS EVER and every author is ONE OF MY FAVORITE AUTHORS EVER, then you’ve got no business calling yourself a review site– YOU ARE AN AUTHOR PROMO SITE. Period.
So sez I. *wink*
Oh, and don’t get me started on the organized “attack posts” at Amazon. I AM a Laurell Hamilton fan, you know.
Word. This is what always makes me frothy when these discussions come up. If an author can clearly see if a review is useless crap, why can’t a reader?
And most of the stuff posted on Amazon is useless, really. I don’t even think authors should worry about that.
Syb – you are rambling, but I love the post and I think I got what you wanted to say.
I am glad I don’t frequent this blog in question, and after reading your post I probably never will. I have a handful of reader blogs I stick to, people who are lovers of the genre, and discuss its merits and disadvantages in an ethical way. I have been reviewing since 2003 and learned a tremendous amount since then. I have always written honest reviews, and I remember, when one of my very first reviews (I was young and starry-eyed) for a site which shall not be mentioned here, was about an erotic romance I simply thought to be atrocious. I explained my reasons and stated my conclusions, and a few days later came a message from the epublisher (a well known and established at that) that it is unacceptable to publish a review with only two points (out of five) and if the offending thing in question could please be removed.
Needless to say I stopped requesting books from this site and never spent a dollar there.
I admit I am a person who is rather easily influenced when it comes to online behaviour of authors. I have tried out authors whose online voice I immensely liked and most often got very lucky, others I would never touch with a ten foot pole because of their blog comments alone.
I understand that an author puts a lot of work into his babies, cuddles and pampers them, grows angry and shouts at their misbehaviour … and in the end is convinced to have done his best. Then there comes a reviewer and says it sux, it’s crap and practically tears apart months of labour of love.
It is not fair, but duh, that’s life. I teach children every day and quickly needed to grow a thick skin. Everybody working in a remotely competitive surrounding will be confronted with challenging and “mean” situations once in a while. This is called growing up and dealing with people who are not always fair and who may not have the same ethical standard you do. It boils down to either showing class … or not.
I’m commenting before reading the comments (yeah, I shouldn’t but girl Sybil, you do go on! and if I don’t post now, I’ll forget what I wanted to say…)
Shit, I already forgot.
Anyway… There have been conversations on and off in romance blogland for quite a while about what is a ‘proper’ review and what ain’t. The blurb? Often wrong in the details, or emphasizing the wrong/minor aspect of the story (S. Brockmann’s “All Through the Night” is the most recent example I can remember right now.) And that is when the blurb doesn’t give away the MAIN plot point or twist that makes the story so satisfying on the first read.
I am trying, right now, to write a series of reviews for a board that’s struggling, and I’m finding that I admire those who can articulate their feelings for a book without simply gushing–the best of the best book EVAH!!!! in the history of writing!–or simply eviscerating–the worst pile of drivel any mind ever spewed in public.
It’s not that a positive review can’t be well written, thoughtful, critical–I mean, even the very best of books have flaws!–nor conversely than a well written negative review can’t move a particular reader to seek out that book. S/he may be looking for exactly those plot elements (for example) that made the reviewer blink/shudder/retch. I think that what a review should do is provoke curiosity about the book. Motivate the reviewer’s audience to find out more about the book. More often than not this will result in sales–even if only for the “I can’t believe how BAD this book is touted to be! I gotta see this trainwreck for myself!” And who knows? A reader buying for the rubbernecking may end up liking the work itself.
On the other hand… ’cause yeah, I have two–and sometimes three or more.
On the other hand, I understand why writers–especially if they are published themselves–would rather not give negative or even neutral reviews of other writers. Are they all weenies for doing so? I don’t think so. I think the smart thing to do is not to wily-nilly piss off your colleagues–or rather, piss in the pool you too are swimming in. Does that mean that every positive review they publish anywhere has to be gushing sunshine and rainbows? Hell, no! I hope to goodness a writer worth his/her salt can write a thoughtful and critical review, even if s/he only writes positive reviews.
The one thing that bugs me on behalf of reviews sites are the visitor/commenters who demand change in format or tone. “You are oh so mean!” or “You use foul language!” or whatever variation. It’s like inviting someone over to your house, and having them tell you how you should redecorate the living room, and buy new kitchen appliances because they couldn’t live with it as it is. What on earth?
I will shut up now, not touching the trollery bit cause… well, just ’cause.
Shi I can ramble at any time of day ;).
Caroline, it had nothing to do really about you but my ramble was off of your comment. So to keep people from thinking I was speaking TO you…. LOL guess it didn’t work eh?
And Vey, yeah she does if RWA is going to hold up PW as ‘real media’ but not DA, not SB, not AAR, not us or what BB is working toward. So much more play into it than a name, there are review sites changing ad rates with less traffic than some personal reader blogs. So if the judge of what is a true source of news is nothing more than being “affiliated with a nationally distributed media source” Vey is doing readers a serious disservice but hey, she is being nice and I am sure the authors adore that.
As for Roxi, that was more of a personal thing I guess. If I can’t tell what doesn’t work for you, what does work for you means nothing. I am not saying she is a bad person or that she is lying but that her reviews mean nothing to me as a book buyer.
Are authors in a rough spot… sure they could be… but I my choice as a reader is an author says nothing if it isn’t ‘nice’ I want them to say nothing period. Of course that is prolly just me.
Well, PW does do reviews. Authors like to get them, generally, because PW has a big readership. I assume PW would tell Barbara Vey to do reviews if that were her job, otherwise, why shouldn’t she have the same freedom on her blog as you do on yours? She’s still talking about books.
I don’t know why RWA limited press badges this year; perhaps they got tons of requests from obscure review sites and random bloggers and just drew a line that was easy to see. Maybe they could have done it differently (web traffic, volume of content, something). And I agree it is a good thing that some sites like SB and DA can afford to go and will, but you know what? There are plenty of authors who can’t afford to go–and every paying attendee is subsidizing every non-paying attendee.
So there is no difference in a reader blog, like say Karen Scott’s than one hosted, endorsed, paid for and housed by Publisher Weekly a “nationally distributed media source”?
What is the difference between TGTBTU and Vey? Well I pay for this blog, I take care of it and make it run. So yes I am god in TGTBTU land and can do whatever I want.
Is Vey wrong? No I think Publisher Weekly is because if they are going to be a “a nationally distributed media source” Barbara Vey, as nice as she is, is not a good face on Romance. Of course I feel the same way about Lifetime.
Is it any wonder people think romance is trite, stupid, poorly written and not for those with a brain when those “affiliated with a nationally distributed media source” think we are in the 50s, need to only be nice, smile and lie to each other because god forbid we have a thought, voice it and confuse the other stupid women who of course can’t think on their own.
So yes I have issue with the limited number of press passes going to a few ‘nice’ girls who do the real interesting reviews, interviews and you know ask the authors their favorite cover model. And the newspapers who look down on the genre.
Woot! go team romance
I don’t care if everyone and their mother thinks romance is nothing more than trash. But I do care that the only info I can get is to tell me about the trash or gosh darn just how nice the authors looked in their purdy dresses.
This is one long ass post, Sybil. I’ll read the other half tomorrow. So are you going to San Francisco or what?
I know, long long long… but hey I don’t that often *g*.
No clue about San Fran. I had pretty much decided not to months and months ago but now not so sure. So it is something I need to give some thought.
I tend to think that most authors tend to see slice and dice reviews as personal attacks, because some of them view their own books, as an extension of themselves. That’ll never change because some people are just ova-sen-sa-teeve that way.
Hey, on my blog, I’ll always think I’m far more important than the book, because quite frankly, I’m the one who read it. It should be all about me, and what I think.
I have to say, I’ve never really considered myself as snarky, that’s a label that I’ve been given. I prefer to think of myself as honest, and yes, sarcastic and cutting can also be levelled at me. ‘Snark’ is one of those American words that hasn’t made its way into my everyday life, and nor would I wish it to.
As for Amazon reviews, I can’t say I read them.
Well, I of course, am the nice one. But I don’t think you are snarky either.
So tis all good, since you know, this is all about me 😉
I would love to go to San Fran because it is an awesome place to visit.
And I would love to go to RWA, but it is a tad expensive. But what makes a professional reviewer a “professional?” Because they get paid for it?
An author can decide to read the reviews or not, and to be effected by them or not. You write the way you want to write and if it sells more books and gives you money in your pocket, all the more power.
I use to be a big Laurell K. Hamilton fan and because of the way she went with her Anita Blake series, I stopped buying. But that hasn’t stopped her from writing the way she wants to and selling a ton of book along with hit the top ten on the NY Times Best Seller lists.
I keep meaning to post but the cat is hurling all over the house. sigh. Most recently BEHIND the piano. ?
My kids always kept reading journals at school and the teachers said, daily, do not retell the story. I want to know how the book made you feel. What is it about? Why do you like it. Etc…And I agree. If I want a retell, I’ll go to amazon. I snooze off when there is no reader personality reflected in the review. The blogs I visit I do so by choice. I like those folks and their style. I think of many of them as my book group because we enjoy many of the same books. I don’t care if they get snarky. Sometimes a book deserves a good snark.
All art is subject to criticism. Snarking the author personally is an entirely different matter and that’s not my thing.
Well. That Orson Scott Card thing had my knickers in a twist….
I found this discussion rather interesting as I am an Amazon reviewer and in the top 100. I do indeed post mostly positive reviews, but that is because I was sick of authors’ screaming fangirls slamming negative reviews they disagreed with, with “no” votes. However, as a reader I definitley appreciate the negative reviews and DNF reviews others post (perhaps I am a hypocrite) as they might alert me to something that I know would make me hate the book, and therefore I can save my money. For example I will not read any book where the hero rapes the heroine. So if someone says “I stopped reading this book on page 50 because the hero was a rapist” then I will know to avoid that book as I will not enjoy it. So I definitley think such reviews serve a purpose.
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe.
Cough, cough, cough.
Oh, now, look what you done, Sybil. Made me start coughing again. Snicker.
Actually, that about sums up what I have to say since I don’t review and have always said that up front. I talk about the books, nothing more, nothing less. Sometimes I like them. Sometimes I don’t. The whole “reviews” discussion usually makes my head explode anyway. It just gets redundant after a while.