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	<title>Comments on: The History in&#160;Historicals</title>
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	<link>http://goodbadandunread.com/2009/05/26/the-history-in-historicals/</link>
	<description>Reading, Ranting and Reviewing by Readers</description>
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		<title>By: Around the Blogosphere &#124; Flight into Fantasy</title>
		<link>http://goodbadandunread.com/2009/05/26/the-history-in-historicals/comment-page-1/#comment-124228</link>
		<dc:creator>Around the Blogosphere &#124; Flight into Fantasy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 19:58:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodbadandunread.com/2009/05/26/the-history-in-historicals/#comment-124228</guid>
		<description>[...] not already, for my own infrequent commentary, there was a fascinating discussion about reader and writer expectations in historical romance. I think I fall in line with Lawson on these things, but I&#8217;m not a history geek, and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] not already, for my own infrequent commentary, there was a fascinating discussion about reader and writer expectations in historical romance. I think I fall in line with Lawson on these things, but I&#8217;m not a history geek, and&nbsp;[&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Sandy M</title>
		<link>http://goodbadandunread.com/2009/05/26/the-history-in-historicals/comment-page-1/#comment-123775</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandy M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 01:23:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodbadandunread.com/2009/05/26/the-history-in-historicals/#comment-123775</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with you Lawson.  I don&#039;t care about historical accuracy all that much when I read an historical story, mainly because I read for the characters like you do, but also because I never liked history in school, I never paid much attention, and it still does nothing for me. Yes, I know the highlights of history through the ages and that&#039;s all I need. But most inaccuracies are so subtle to the average reader, even those like me who don&#039;t care, that we&#039;d never know the difference. 

Example -- Jean, your mention of Mary Balogh using the term handicapped, for the normal reader who doesn&#039;t know as much about history like you do, that woudn&#039;t even jump out at them.  I had someone point out to me a couple of years ago an author had Big Ben tolling in the background but Big Ben did not exist in the year the story took place. ????  I have no reason to know when Big Ben was built and I really don&#039;t care. What the author did was give me the flavor of London along with other descriptions she used. Now, maybe I can say that because I&#039;m not British so I don&#039;t know English history all that well.  Well, it would be the same for me if an author took license with the Boston Tea Party to fit her story. Go for it, I say. I want an author to use her imagination and give me the best story she can. If she has to do something different with history to do that, by all means, go right ahead.

Now, if the inaccuracy is something like, as a friend recently mentioned when we had this exact same discussion, a man zipping or unzipping his pants before the zipper was invented, yeah, that might take me out of the story for a second or two, but it wouldn&#039;t last because I&quot;m not going to go look up when the zipper was invented. It&#039;s not that important to me. So an author got it wrong.  Doesn&#039;t ruin the story for me. 

Something that will pull me out of the story and ruin it - another example, I reviewed a book several years ago where the author had the hero three sheets to the wind in a medieval story. That definitely pulled me out. Now, I didn&#039;t look that little bit of slang up either, so I guess it&#039;s possible it was used back in those days, but to me it&#039;s a modern phrase and shouldn&#039;t have been used in that book. There were several like that throughout. If it had been just the one, I might have overlooked it, but three or four different ones doesn&#039;t work.

I realize an author has to balance this type of thing out because there are history majors and buffs out there. But that&#039;s why I don&#039;t read historical fiction. I don&#039;t like to read real history with real historical characters so that an author has to stick to historical facts for her story. She&#039;s limited in what she can do.  I want fiction to give me just that, all fiction to give me a story with characters I will moon over and put that book on my keeper shelf. I read for purely entertainment purposes and nothing more. 

Then why do I read historicals?  I can still enjoy a good historical, it gives the book flavor and texture and a beautiful backdrop. And I like a Duke falling in love with the milk maid. That&#039;s fantasy and that&#039;s what we long for when we read, that could it happen to me syndrome. I guess that&#039;s why I also go for paranormals so much, because the author has free rein to do what they please to give the reader a story. 

Sorry, I know I&#039;m all over the place here. I wrote as things occurred to me!  But we can debate this issue until we turn blue, it won&#039;t make an author&#039;s job any easier and we&#039;ll still debate it no matter what because of the different ways we look at reading and history. Yes, I have my certain issues that I do find here and there, but they&#039;re few and far between, and as long as I get a good story, alpha hero and all, I&#039;m happy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with you Lawson.  I don&#8217;t care about historical accuracy all that much when I read an historical story, mainly because I read for the characters like you do, but also because I never liked history in school, I never paid much attention, and it still does nothing for me. Yes, I know the highlights of history through the ages and that&#8217;s all I need. But most inaccuracies are so subtle to the average reader, even those like me who don&#8217;t care, that we&#8217;d never know the difference. </p>
<p>Example &#8212; Jean, your mention of Mary Balogh using the term handicapped, for the normal reader who doesn&#8217;t know as much about history like you do, that woudn&#8217;t even jump out at them.  I had someone point out to me a couple of years ago an author had Big Ben tolling in the background but Big Ben did not exist in the year the story took place. ????  I have no reason to know when Big Ben was built and I really don&#8217;t care. What the author did was give me the flavor of London along with other descriptions she used. Now, maybe I can say that because I&#8217;m not British so I don&#8217;t know English history all that well.  Well, it would be the same for me if an author took license with the Boston Tea Party to fit her story. Go for it, I say. I want an author to use her imagination and give me the best story she can. If she has to do something different with history to do that, by all means, go right ahead.</p>
<p>Now, if the inaccuracy is something like, as a friend recently mentioned when we had this exact same discussion, a man zipping or unzipping his pants before the zipper was invented, yeah, that might take me out of the story for a second or two, but it wouldn&#8217;t last because I&#8221;m not going to go look up when the zipper was invented. It&#8217;s not that important to me. So an author got it wrong.  Doesn&#8217;t ruin the story for me. </p>
<p>Something that will pull me out of the story and ruin it - another example, I reviewed a book several years ago where the author had the hero three sheets to the wind in a medieval story. That definitely pulled me out. Now, I didn&#8217;t look that little bit of slang up either, so I guess it&#8217;s possible it was used back in those days, but to me it&#8217;s a modern phrase and shouldn&#8217;t have been used in that book. There were several like that throughout. If it had been just the one, I might have overlooked it, but three or four different ones doesn&#8217;t work.</p>
<p>I realize an author has to balance this type of thing out because there are history majors and buffs out there. But that&#8217;s why I don&#8217;t read historical fiction. I don&#8217;t like to read real history with real historical characters so that an author has to stick to historical facts for her story. She&#8217;s limited in what she can do.  I want fiction to give me just that, all fiction to give me a story with characters I will moon over and put that book on my keeper shelf. I read for purely entertainment purposes and nothing more. </p>
<p>Then why do I read historicals?  I can still enjoy a good historical, it gives the book flavor and texture and a beautiful backdrop. And I like a Duke falling in love with the milk maid. That&#8217;s fantasy and that&#8217;s what we long for when we read, that could it happen to me syndrome. I guess that&#8217;s why I also go for paranormals so much, because the author has free rein to do what they please to give the reader a story. </p>
<p>Sorry, I know I&#8217;m all over the place here. I wrote as things occurred to me!  But we can debate this issue until we turn blue, it won&#8217;t make an author&#8217;s job any easier and we&#8217;ll still debate it no matter what because of the different ways we look at reading and history. Yes, I have my certain issues that I do find here and there, but they&#8217;re few and far between, and as long as I get a good story, alpha hero and all, I&#8217;m&nbsp;happy.</p>
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		<title>By: Lawson</title>
		<link>http://goodbadandunread.com/2009/05/26/the-history-in-historicals/comment-page-1/#comment-123730</link>
		<dc:creator>Lawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 18:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodbadandunread.com/2009/05/26/the-history-in-historicals/#comment-123730</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s an interesting issue and obviously not black or white in terms of interpretation.   It really does come down to what the reader chooses to read, believe, digest and take out of any book.  I think that everyone has their personal pet peeves when it comes to what does end up in plots and characterizations, whether it&#039;s accurate or not.  I want to read about characters that are true to period, sure, but then I don&#039;t know if I could handle an entire book set before the War of the Roses with dialogue in Middle English.  

I&#039;m sure too much of what is written is intended to be more relatable than history buffs like to read about, but a romance should be about the romance of the main characters rather than the general setting, right?  I will admit that if something is so glaringly inaccurate or the use of a modern word doesn&#039;t fit with the setting, it can ruin a book for me.  But usually those books that have great characters and plots also have a good historical setting that maybe isn&#039;t truly accurate, but gives the right feeling for a well written story.  That&#039;s my point of view at least.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s an interesting issue and obviously not black or white in terms of interpretation.   It really does come down to what the reader chooses to read, believe, digest and take out of any book.  I think that everyone has their personal pet peeves when it comes to what does end up in plots and characterizations, whether it&#8217;s accurate or not.  I want to read about characters that are true to period, sure, but then I don&#8217;t know if I could handle an entire book set before the War of the Roses with dialogue in Middle English.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure too much of what is written is intended to be more relatable than history buffs like to read about, but a romance should be about the romance of the main characters rather than the general setting, right?  I will admit that if something is so glaringly inaccurate or the use of a modern word doesn&#8217;t fit with the setting, it can ruin a book for me.  But usually those books that have great characters and plots also have a good historical setting that maybe isn&#8217;t truly accurate, but gives the right feeling for a well written story.  That&#8217;s my point of view at&nbsp;least.</p>
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		<title>By: Jean Poole</title>
		<link>http://goodbadandunread.com/2009/05/26/the-history-in-historicals/comment-page-1/#comment-123626</link>
		<dc:creator>Jean Poole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 23:05:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodbadandunread.com/2009/05/26/the-history-in-historicals/#comment-123626</guid>
		<description>Agreeing that  good writing can gloss over some of the meta-inaccuracies in historicals and make a very good read.  My personal &quot;beef&quot;, if you will, is with the glaring anachronistic word or physical institution that gets inserted into an otherwise fine fantasy of the Marquis and the milkmaid.  

 Mary Balogh writes well and some of hers are on the keeper shelf.  But she had one using the word &quot;handicapped&quot; in the sense of physical disability in the early 19th century.  It is only attested as that use from the early 20th century.  In the early 19th century it was a horse racing term for added extra weight to the horse in a race.   

Another writer doing the same era had a character in an interior dialog referencing the Royal Ballet.   That august institution was founded in 1931 and did not receive its royal charter until 1956.  

It&#039;s these sort of thing that throws me out of the world the writer is building.  Maybe I&#039;m just being a cranky-pants.  I still have trouble with clan setts in medievals too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreeing that  good writing can gloss over some of the meta-inaccuracies in historicals and make a very good read.  My personal &#8220;beef&#8221;, if you will, is with the glaring anachronistic word or physical institution that gets inserted into an otherwise fine fantasy of the Marquis and the milkmaid.  </p>
<p> Mary Balogh writes well and some of hers are on the keeper shelf.  But she had one using the word &#8220;handicapped&#8221; in the sense of physical disability in the early 19th century.  It is only attested as that use from the early 20th century.  In the early 19th century it was a horse racing term for added extra weight to the horse in a race.   </p>
<p>Another writer doing the same era had a character in an interior dialog referencing the Royal Ballet.   That august institution was founded in 1931 and did not receive its royal charter until 1956.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s these sort of thing that throws me out of the world the writer is building.  Maybe I&#8217;m just being a cranky-pants.  I still have trouble with clan setts in medievals&nbsp;too.</p>
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		<title>By: Jody</title>
		<link>http://goodbadandunread.com/2009/05/26/the-history-in-historicals/comment-page-1/#comment-123620</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 22:24:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://goodbadandunread.com/2009/05/26/the-history-in-historicals/#comment-123620</guid>
		<description>An interesting take on the issue. Though I am one of those readers who does look up things I find in a book that may seem off, I recognize that I don&#039;t read a historical romance for the same reason I read a historical fiction. Though I having BA in history I have learned to be less anal on what I believe to be the historical fact in a romance, especially if the story is compelling but they usually arn&#039;t if the history is suspect. I want authors to place their characters in settings that make sense and that the characters act ect like those of that period. The problem is authors spend so much time researching their books using less then 5 % of that information so there are those who info dump information that does nothing to the action of the story but shows they did reseach. Not to say that I don&#039;t take an author to task for taking the easy way out for their conflict using overused plot devises like handfasting (trial marriages of a year and a day)  or solving Anglo/Scottish border problems by having an English woman marry a Highlander. Those of us who read more than a 100 historical romances a year expect something a bit more historical or we would read contemporaries, they just need to keep the info dumps to a minimum. And for those authors such as Virginia Henley who take real historical figures and create a fictionalized accounts of their life with some poetic license, as long as the h/h are acting in the period I have little problem with them not telling the whole historical truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting take on the issue. Though I am one of those readers who does look up things I find in a book that may seem off, I recognize that I don&#8217;t read a historical romance for the same reason I read a historical fiction. Though I having BA in history I have learned to be less anal on what I believe to be the historical fact in a romance, especially if the story is compelling but they usually arn&#8217;t if the history is suspect. I want authors to place their characters in settings that make sense and that the characters act ect like those of that period. The problem is authors spend so much time researching their books using less then 5 % of that information so there are those who info dump information that does nothing to the action of the story but shows they did reseach. Not to say that I don&#8217;t take an author to task for taking the easy way out for their conflict using overused plot devises like handfasting (trial marriages of a year and a day)  or solving Anglo/Scottish border problems by having an English woman marry a Highlander. Those of us who read more than a 100 historical romances a year expect something a bit more historical or we would read contemporaries, they just need to keep the info dumps to a minimum. And for those authors such as Virginia Henley who take real historical figures and create a fictionalized accounts of their life with some poetic license, as long as the h/h are acting in the period I have little problem with them not telling the whole historical&nbsp;truth.</p>
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