Comments on: Can you change a villain into a hero?

By: Kaetrin

Kaetrin — Mon, 16 Mar 2009 05:24:06 +0000

I don’t see why you can’t turn a villain into a hero – if the author is clever enough! I think that’s the trick.

Plenty of reviews I’ve read lately have bemoaned the villian’s one dimensional character. Perhaps a villian who has some nuance would be a good start. Then, (perhaps) something happens to change the villian in some way – some tragedy, or some great responsibility (like parenthood or becoming the head of the family, etc).

Personally, I don’t like stories where the only reason there is a character change is because the “hero” meets “the One”. I think its too much responsibility on “the One” and I like to see maybe that person inspiring the change but the hero taking the ownership of it, or, “the One” meeting the hero in the midst of or after the change in character. Because, at the end of the day, if the villain turns hero , I want to be sure that he won’t turn back into a villain again.

Maybe all Elizabeth needs is to meet someone who finally understands her and won’t let her cheat herself…

I don’t think one could make Hannibal Lecter a hero though. Ever.

By: Seneca

Seneca — Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:52:17 +0000

Sebastian did not turn around for me. I don’t feel his actions were redeemed in Devil in Winter. He is by far my least favourite Wall Flower Hero.
He is the only ‘bad turned good’ hero I have read, and no, I don’t think he was ever really turned good, so for me a hero once bad is always bad.

It would be nice to see a bad guy turn nice, though.

By: kirsten saell

kirsten saell — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 19:00:02 +0000

A villain who is stupid or pathetic can’t be turned in my mind.

He can pretty much DO any nasty, horrible, evil thing, but I think there has to be a part of him that doesn’t enjoy it, or that rails against the necessity of it. In other words, he has to be as three dimensional a villain as he would have to be as a hero. If he’s 100% bona fide evil, there’s nothing to work with.

By: Lynne Connolly

Lynne Connolly — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 14:13:02 +0000

I gotta pick a winner!
Thanks for all of your comments, you’ve given me great food for thought and some great examples of villains-turned-heroes! It would have been nice to hear from someone who’d read the book, to see if they thought Elizabeth could be turned, but I daresay I’ll hear about that as time goes on!
I gave all the commenters a number, then asked my daughter to pick a number. So the winner was chosen blind.
And it is…..
Annalisa!
Please contact me, Annalisa, and tell me what format you’d like your prize to be in and I’ll get it right off to you.
Meantime, keep chatting!

What would stop a villain becoming a hero in your eyes? What would mean that you hate them so much, they couldn’t be turned around? Or is there no limit?

By: kirsten saell

kirsten saell — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 19:02:42 +0000

Huh. Maybe I ought to stop killing off all my villains, eh?

By: annalisa

annalisa — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 02:13:45 +0000

I think it would be interesting to see Elizabeth transformed from a villainess into a heroine and get a HEA .

By: LJ White

LJ White — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 01:38:36 +0000

I do believe that most villians can be turned around. It’s the reforming of them that can make a great story.

By: Carol Luciano

Carol Luciano — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 01:21:05 +0000

Oh I have to agree with Fae, if Adam can be turned around and was he ever. Here’s someone who went from unrepentent villain into a her who you just love when he makes his turn around. KMM did a great job with him.
Carol L.

By: Lexee

Lexee — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 23:16:43 +0000

Yes I think that Elizabeth should become a heroine.

By: Jeanne St. James

Jeanne St. James — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:45:26 +0000

Tragedies have changed people. So it is possible.

By: Jami Alden

Jami Alden — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 00:14:34 +0000

speaking of shannon, she also did a great job in Return To Me with a side character. One of the guys, Brad, was a total dick for most of the book, but by the end he had a great side romance with another character which was awesome. sadly, shannon says she won’t write them their own story because technically she gave them their HEA in that book. .hmph. like she can’t just find a way to break them up!

By: Sybil

Sybil — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 23:55:13 +0000

OH! and has anyone talked about Shannon McKenna yet? Jami Alden soooooooooo should have brought her up.

Shannon has a character, Tamara, who is just all sorts of shades of bad girl in many of her McCloud Books. And she is the heroine in her lastest book ULTIMATE WEAPON.

By: Joykenn

Joykenn — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 23:14:10 +0000

Ah, the “evil” experienced woman who wants to marry her lover. A rather stock character in Cartland. I’ld love to see what could be done in turning her into a heroine. I never felt the Countess in the Sound of Music was an “evil” character and wanted her to have a HEA as well as Maria. Though she didn’t particularly want a huge family of resentful stepchildren she did want the Captain and seemed to care about his happiness. I’m all for more Happy Endings. Let an experienced woman as well as the virgin wind up with a hero.

By: Jennifer Estep

Jennifer Estep — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 13:16:51 +0000

Yet another Kleypas book … Hardy betrayed Liberty in Sugar Daddy, but came back and was the hero of Blue-Eyed Devil. Not a huge villain-to-hero turnaround, but it does seem to be a theme with Kleypas — which is why Devil in Winter was my favorite Wallflower book.

By: Sherry

Sherry — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 01:35:06 +0000

I think Elizabeth could definitely be a heroine in a future book. Everyone has a chance to redeem themselves. I love Lisa Kleypas’s books. She’s wonderful at turning villains into heroes. I haven’t read Sherrilyn Kenyon’s book yet on Stryker but I definitely need to get to it. If Stryker redeems himself anyone can. LOL!

By: Lori

Lori — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 00:40:23 +0000

*SMACK* I mean the hero of the next book. Doh!

By: Lori

Lori — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 00:38:55 +0000

I don’t know that I’ve ever seen it work with a woman before. Another villain turned hero I’ve seen it work with was Magnus, the villain in Love According to Lily. He was really a horrific person in that book, and Julianne MacLean did what I thought was a masterful job in turning him into the villian of the next book, Portrait of a Lover.

I think it would be possible to turn a woman villain into a heroine, but it would have to be masterfully done. Romance readers are much more willing to forgive a man his issues than a woman, I think. We’re a fickle, bitchy lot. LOL!

By: Pam P

Pam P — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 00:14:51 +0000

Another Kleypas, also – Nick Gentry was a villianous sort in Lady Sophia’s Lover, then the hero in Worth Any Price.

Many of us go for those reformed rakes and villians not so evil who redeem themselves, so why not a heroine, too, depending on how evil (or not) she was.

By: willaful

willaful — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 23:13:00 +0000

The villainess has been done by — of course! — Mary Balogh. Though she doesn’t actually appear in the book, the hero of A Precious Jewel has considerable psychological damage caused by his stepmother coming on to him when he was quite young. She is the heroine of A Christmas Bride.

Balogh has also done villain to hero many times – see this page listing her series books for examples: http://www.marybalogh.com/series.html

Shadowheart is wonderful. Allegretto is pretty nasty for some of that too, but we really get to see what makes him tick and feel for him.

By: Karin

Karin — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 21:32:27 +0000

I think Elizabeth can probably work as a heroine of a future book. It all depends on the motivations behind her actions and what exactly those actions were that make her a villain. I love redeemable villains – especially when it’s finding that one person who really matters that eventually redeems them.

By: Cursingmama

Cursingmama — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 20:46:27 +0000

I don’t see any reason why Elizabeth can’t change her spots; people do it in real life every day.

By: kirsten saell

kirsten saell — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 20:32:51 +0000

I prefer a villain who’s three-dimensional and not all bad, anyway (although granted, in my first published book, the villain is definitely “all bad”). Stands to reason if the guy isn’t 100% evil, there should be some way to redeem him.

Maybe there needs to be a “truth and reconciliation commission” for fictional baddies?

By: JenB

JenB — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:51:53 +0000

OH! Forgot about the heroine thing…Meljean Brook did it. Lilith is a nasty demon in Falling for Anthony (in the Hot Spell anthology), but she becomes the heroine in Demon Angel.

By: JenB

JenB — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:50:59 +0000

Hmmm…in Savage Thunder by Johanna Lindsey, there was a man named Angel that was sort of a villain. He did good things, but he was technically a bad guy. Then he got his own book (Angel) and was an amazing hero. It totally worked for me.

Laura Kinsale did the villain-turned-hero thing in one of her Medievals. In For My Lady’s Heart, Alegretto was a nasty guy. In the next book (Shadowheart), he’s the hero. I haven’t read it yet so I don’t know how well it works, but I know Sybil has been bugging me to read Shadowheart for weeks now, so it must’ve worked for her.

By: Fae Sutherland

Fae Sutherland — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:50:14 +0000

Karen Moning did it with Adam in her Highlander series. I mean, the guy practically raped the heroine of one of the other books (would have had he not been interrupted) I believe he also nearly killed a couple of heroes from other stories, yet she redeemed him and made him my favorite of the Highlander series heroes.

By: Gwen

Gwen — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:47:17 +0000

Let’s not forget what Kenyon did with Stryker. ARGH!

By: Keira

Keira — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:19:38 +0000

Lisa Kleypas also did that with Only With Your Love. The evil twin brother becomes the hero in that story.