Kristie J couldn’t even hold on to her camera much less something to vid. And Wendy’s out too. If the bitches did it… well we would know it would be all over their blog.

Ten to one it was the Romance Divas? I think it was them that has drunk pics up from the year before on some flicker thing.

I recognize that blogs are relatively new to this whole thing. I didn’t want it to sound like we were shouldering any kind of burden. Hey – if all blogs dropped off the face of the planet tomorrow, it would still keep spinning, RWA would keep meeting, with nary a hiccup except from the few fans. I’m surprisingly comforted by that fact.

I think what I’m trying to say is it’s a little irksome for “online media not associated with national press media” to be singled out as not worthy this year. THAT’S what feels like a slap down. We were judged and the privilege was withdrawn.

I realize we could all pay appropriate fees and attend with no problem, and, in fact, some bloggers are doing just that. It just needles me to have online media singled out as being “not press,” despite all the efforts we make toward that aim.

We work hard at making TGTBTU feel like an online magazine about reading with Op/Eds here and there, and with lots of participation from our readers by way of comments. It just stings a bit that something like RWA doesn’t see it.

And I prefer a nice Double Gloucestershire and pears. I’ll bring the whine.

I figure, if I get roaring drunk and start grabbing titties in the bar (and that was NOT me, BTW) someone is going to report on it, even if there are no bloggers present.

Too true. Did you know someone posted video on YouTube of the conga line dancing at the Harlequin party? Eek!

I don’t mind who shows up at national, and I don’t think it needs to be closed to non-memebers, or be a writer-only zone. I figure, if I get roaring drunk and start grabbing titties in the bar (and that was NOT me, BTW) someone is going to report on it, even if there are no bloggers present.

But the percentage of members that go to this, and are published is small. And the percentage of people, published or not, that can really, honestly say that they make enough money from their writing to pay for this without guilt, is even smaller. Some of us have gone into serious debt on years of bombed pitches and rejection letters and dead-end conferences, before finally seeing a profit.

As members, if we volunteer to help out, which is a great way to make business contacts, we get no discount.

If we present a workshop, there is payment, but it’s nowhere near the price of the membership and travel.

More people than you would think are there on scholarship.

And a lot of us end up spending a buttload of money, on top of fees and travel, on stuff like business attire, hair and make-up, since we’ve been writing all year, and are too scary- looking to leave the house, for what amounts to a 5 day job interview.

It’s not like we don’t party while we’re there, and you don’t need to know the secret writer handshake to hang out with us.

But if the press is getting in free, even if they are adding value by promoting the genre, a big portion of the conference attendees are not benefitting from press, since they have nothing published to promote.

So I think, I should pay, you should pay, and I will show you were the free booze is (that would be my room), because we are all on a tight budget and could use a drink.

I’ve done it. Paid my conference fee, in full, and helped set up at the literacy signing. I’ve helped set up publisher’s signing. A lot of the writers attending volunteer for various chores. It’s the way it’s always been, and long before the internet and bloggers.

I certainly appreciate whatever you do, but please don’t assume you’re the only ones doing it. I believe last year was the first Sybil and Jane attended, and the events were set up and torn down for a couple of decades previously.

The press passes are comps, as I understand it. What the complaint seems to be is having to pay to attend. Nobody’s stopping anyone who’s paid the conference fee from reporting on the conference, on workshops–which the fee would entitle them to attend–and so on. You don’t need press credentials to attend anything if you’ve paid the fee.

I’m sorry, Gwen, because I get the sense you’re really upset and feel slapped down. I just don’t see that’s what’s happening here.

That has no source, other than me typing away like an idiot, while trying to eat a hamburger.

Ignore the blueness and blockiness.

So ashamed.

Christine Merrill – what is the source of your quote, please?

And I’ll pass the cheese to Sybil’s whine. And she knows she sounds whiney, but I think she is saying something important: I think she’s just sick of people saying we’re only in this for ourselves.

We’re not. We do it because we love this industry and want to share the love with other people. This stuff is very time consuming (all gladly spent) and expensive for some (all gladly spent) and definitely not done simply because we want something free. Ain’t nuthin’ free about this.

We’re here because we love this industry and literature. Just want some acknowledgement of the effort that goes into sites like this and the fact that we’re industry focused and bring a hell of a lot of attention to an otherwise ignored part of the writing industry. Think about it – who would pay attention to it if not for DA, SmartBitches, and other similar blogs??

And who is volunteering at these events to set up and tear down, if not people like Sybil and Jane?

Crap. Now I’m beating that poor dead horse.

That’s what I’m getting at and I suspect that lack of “recognition” may be what’s lingering in several other minds as well. It’s one thing to have money worries. We all have those. It’s a totally other thing to not recognize reader support when it’s out there and staring one in the face in several different forms and in several different approaches. Not all of them snark.

All I’m observing is that readers, at least online, have evolved from simply being passive visitors who show up only for booksignings into considerably more active participants who truly do want to know more of what’s going on behind the scenes. Yes, the “official” organization representing the authors can choose to ignore this phenomenon, but does that truly serve their membership’s best interest in the long run?

It is a shit load of work for me, from finding the book (pub contact, author contact), getting the book, reading the book, once I like it and know I want to do a full day – it is a matter of researching the author, their books, their interviews and gathering pics.

Sending info and ideas to the author, following up with the author, getting the info from the author, formatting the posts, setting the posts, getting the word out and contacting the editor or publisher if I want to give away more copies of the book.

Then following up with the authors, publicist and editors with links of posts and syndication. For a year I did 2 to 4 a month by myself. The last year or so gwen has been a huge ass help.

Add in two line weeks – Brava Bad Boys, Avon Red, Alluring Tales, Harlequin Historical

Add in Spooktacular and the upcoming Valenduckie Week

Add in the Halequin Newsletter we will be doing monthly and the Harlequin Spotlight.

Add in the random events like Hwang’s reserve. Add in the up coming 411’s and other random things we have planned and have done. And I think, I could be wrong, that we have more than paid for my press pass last year. Which was the reason I went to RWA – for the blog.

Not to add into that Jane and I volunteered for the book set up at 8 am. And were there until 12:30. I helped set up Bantam’s and St Martin’s booksigning because of the fact I was comp’ed, a reader and I felt I should give whatever lil back that I could.

Was it worth it for me to be there? Maybe… maybe not… but the blog did very well, the traffic more than doubled and our ranking is up (although down now). Could an one print article do more than we have… maybe.

Did it matter to the big picture the live RWA feed went down during the RITA’s but Dear Author was still able to give out the info? maybe… maybe not…

Did it matter we helped Romance Novel TV round up winners? Prolly only to Romance Novel TV. It is what it is… I am just saying IF RWA does any press passes to weigh the requests against what they can and can’t offer.

Gwen is so gonna keel me for animal cruelty.

Personally? I don’t have a clue.

But I’d also want to know if they are comping any RWA members or org reps into their conferences, or giving us any perks or discounts for promotional space at RT (the magazine or the conference). Because aside from the publicity/reporting we may be dealing with a quid pro quo situation between conferences.

Or not. Again. I have no idea.

As far as giving ‘national outlets + blogs’ a pass, ahead of ‘really large blogs’? I’d want to know if we were getting long term exposure, articles and interviews out of these press visits, in addition to on-the-spot reporting. Because, in theory, there could be added value in having both. If we could get press during the conference, and then press about the conference in next months issue of something, it’s a longer term investment and that would be something to think about.

And should we consider financial need in any of this? Because if the big blogs are selling ads, then they have operating capital for news gathering, that smaller “I love romance and kitties” blogs do not. How much help do they need from RWA?

Just one more thing to be considered.

But not by me. Because I do not want to be head of any committees, or run for any boards, or answer any hate mail. I am a follower, not a leader, and prowd of it.

Really, this was a decision made by people who have no hidden agenda, but needed to draw a line somewhere.

Bev, I’m interested in your division between press and reader’s advocates. Because that puts a new spin on this. If blogs aren’t press, then they don’t deserve a press pass. They should think of themselves as fans or readers, and buy a ticket.

Well, it’s not so much that I’m wondering about the “press” distinction for reader-oriented sites as it is that I’m questioning the audience for what they’re “reporting” in the first place.

Or maybe it’s more a matter that readers have a unique place in the grand scheme of things with regards to all this anyway. And we’re not talking about inviting readers off the street in for the book signings and such but designated representatives that are going to report back to a much larger numbers of readers. So, yeah, they are reporters and in that sense “press” but not in the sense of publicizing the industry to the rest of the world.

Put it this way, I bet RWA doesn’t bat an eye at a magazine like RT doing feature articles on the conference targeted at ROMANCE READERS . . . same difference. Only in the case of the other sites and blogs, their reports happen instanteously more or less. There is no lag time. They are still articles that have a wide audience appeal within the online readership of romance readers.

So, does RT get press credentials or does it fall into the same limited scope as the rest? I’m asking that not to be snarky but simply for clarification. What designation does it have as an organization? Because I certainly wouldn’t think that it has a national affiliation. And here’s the thing, maybe SB or Dear Author haven’t reached an appropriate level yet, whatever that is, but I seriously doubt AAR hasn’t passed the numbers of RT yet.

All I’m saying is that if one is going to compare things, you have compare apples with apples, not apples and zucchinis. It just doesn’t work.

I think readers, fans and bloggers are more than welcome to attend. It’s great to meet y’all and it makes me feel like a star! lol. But this is an industry conference and it is primary set up for people who write romance. It’s not a fan-based event. If you’re coming to meet authors and learn more about the genre great. Fabulous if you’re coming to write about us and make us look great . But if you want something geared toward readers, you might want RT’s conference. Which, btw, is more expensive than RWA. I’m just saying.

Because nice isn’t the same thing as rational. Normal people turn crazy without warning, if they feel they are being treated unfairly. And it doesn’t really matter if they can win a law suit. They can still sue. And it takes time and money to make them go away, even if they have no grounds to get in your grill about an issue.

Even if the law is not involved, it takes lots of time to deal with people who are unhappy with a decision. And the members of the RWA board, whether they are right or wrong, are all volunteers. My heart goes out to them.

Bev, I’m interested in your division between press and reader’s advocates. Because that puts a new spin on this. If blogs aren’t press, then they don’t deserve a press pass. They should think of themselves as fans or readers, and buy a ticket.

(Of course, if they are press, then I think that ethically they should still buy a ticket. I’m sticky that way).

It’s not that RWA is hiding. Really. Anyone who can afford to can go to this thing. And it’s expensive because it is not a fan conference, it’s a business conference.

I guess I’m just not clear on the need to subsidize anyone, just to make our business appear transparent.

The website is unable to display the webpage
HTTP 501/HTTP 505

I get it on both the linked page and the base URL. It may just be a temporary thing that’ll clear up later but I thought I’d ask.

Although really could you sue for that? I am sure I have been called worse.

Really this goes to my beef with websites charging for ad space and what they charge. I can’t understand, other than the author just doesn’t ‘understand’, why anyone would pay 150 for space on a blog that clearly shows their traffic at less than 60 views a day with an average of around 400 a month.

When low end for high traffic blogs is around 100,000 a month.

Soooo really… telling the kitten blog, who I would bet is nicer than ANY high traffic blog (even nicer than me and I am sweetness and light) no soup for you, how in the world could that be sueable? Hell is sueable a word?

Of course unless the point is not wanting the high traffic blogs like SB and DA who some deem meangrrls. Then taking the kitten blog and saying no no SB and DA would be wrong, bad and evol. And goes back to just wanting to make the meangrrl bloggers pay for being… you know… mean.

Which of course, me being sweetness and light wouldn’t count either way so why do I get punished?

…and on that note, the dead horse up and said HALLELUJAH! I’ve RISEN AGAIN! Dude and I haven’t even posted part II yet!

I’m not sure the two things are at all the same in terms of reporting. It is entirely possible that a completely new category needs to be invented, not for online sites and blogs but for reader representatives. This may not be about the difference between media but between audiences. We simply aren’t the general public. Romance doesn’t have to be “sold” to us. But it also doesn’t have to hide from us either, does it?

On this point, I can say RWA has to be very careful. People sue, especially like to sue organizations. Who decides who’s the moron? The moron NEVER thinks they’re a moron.

So without a clear-cut policy with standards for what qualifies as a blog for this purpose, any blog declined could threaten to sue. You’re right back to the mean girl thing. RWA is a mean girl, and they only let Blogs A, B and C in because they’re mean girls, too! They HATE kittens!

However silly that sounds, it’s pretty close to reality.

But if they are gonna have x amount they should be based on what gets the genre the most exposure. To the right audience that would buy the books.

I would look like the asshole if I applied for a pass, sent in my numbers and whatever and was 20 out of 20 for 10 passes. What would I say… omg it isn’t fair? Well life isn’t fair.

But to say I don’t count because I am ‘just’ a blog so I don’t even rate to apply. And if I am stupid enough to send in an app for my kitten’s luv teh romance blog… tell me no.

I can’t even believe it would be a question that the internet isn’t ‘real media’ or that a professional org can’t tell morons ‘no’.

Not trying to impugn your ethics, Sybil. Really. I trust you to be honest, and since you accept electronic ARCs for review, you work damn cheap (like for free). And I would totally be willing to buy you a drink or lunch, or give you a free book, and not expect a puff review in return. Because on the other side of this, every gift is not a bribe.

But…

If you start checking around on newspaper ethics codes, we’d be heading into a gray area, with an all access pass to this conference. You can’t expect reviewers to review without tickets, and free books. But those things are cheap, compared to even an associate membership to this conference. (although I can’t find the DAMN price on the DAMN website, without spending my day in click hell, I’m pretty sure we’re over $200 and under $400, right?)

So, generally speaking, a serious journalist should probably turn it down, if their media outlet couldn’t afford to buy them a ticket. It would be worse, if we were offering hotels, too. But even with hotel grade horse’s duffers, and continental breakfast, it could look to some people like we were trying to buy good press.

And frankly, having run a small conference (which I will NEVER do again) I know how crazy it gets when you try to figure out who to comp, and what to comp them for. And I also know that some people will try to get as much as they can, even when you can’t afford to give. (I could tell stories. You will have to find me and get me drunk, first. Very drunk.)

So, while some people don’t see why the bar can’t be lower, to let more press in, I don’t see any reason that it can’t be higher to kick everyone out. It’s not that I want to exclude the press, to keep them from seeing some dirty little secret. If there are dirty secrets? I definitely want to be at that party. I always miss the really good stuff, even when i’m in the right room. And I don’t really care who comes, or who they represent.

I only care if we’re paying for them. And I’d just as soon see no full conference passes. Or people in on a day pass. And then let them leave. But sell a membership to anyone who wants one.

I don’t think it’s possible to make an easy decision on who is big enough, and who is too small. But that’s just because I’ve never seen any decision made by the RWA board, that hasn’t made someone mad, or not generated accusations of favoritism, cronyism, or Ludite thinking. No matter where they draw the line, the person on the wrong side of the line is going to be unhappy.